[Rumour] LeBrun: Flames among 3 teams calling about Mike Smith but #1 target is MAF

[FlamingHomer]

I just shudder at the thought of another goalie with decent numbers coming to Calgary under Jordan Sigalet's tutelage. How does he still have a job?

[868904]

Mike Smith is the only goalie acquisition where I would have complete faith in Treliving if he were to go this route. He and Maloney know everything about him, they watched him for years, they know his character, they know how he reacts to pressure, they know just how good he is. They know this guy inside out.

With any other goalie, they have to rely on third person accounts and watch endless video and analysis.

I'm not saying Smith is my number 1 choice, but if the Flames ended up getting him, I'd be comfortable knowing that the senior management of the team knows exactly what they are getting.

[Tinordi]

Smith is a quality systems goalie, Glen G is a quality systems coach. Wouldn't have a problem acquiring Smith if the price was right.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Smith is a quality systems goalie, Glen G is a quality systems coach. Wouldn't have a problem acquiring Smith if the price was right.

Can you explain what a "systems goalie" means in regards to ability to stop pucks? I get that he's a good puck handler and can help with puck retrieval, transition, etc but I don't see how that has any bearing on how well he keeps pucks out of the net.

[Matty81]

Career if you take away his one good season his save percentage is .910. And in this case that is a fair thing to do because it is a major outlier at .930.

Just to contrast, Chad Johnson's career save percentage is .915. Elliot is .913.

Somebody said he was making 40 saves a game... well if that was the case based on his save percentage he was also letting in about 4 goals a game.

I get the quality of chance argument but his save percentage hasn't been good since 2011-12 and was below average even before that. Really when you look at his career that was his only really good NHL season. He has never been an elite goalie except that one blip year. Even in the minors.

For me he's overrated. And that's not to say he's not a passable NHL starter, but he is middle of the pack at best, probably slightly below. His save percentage has never been that high, on a defensive team, and he is a bit of a hothead.

But for me the kicker is that goofball GM they have spouting off about how the price will be steep. Doing his job I guess but teams should stay away. Old, overpaid and average stats but he will cost a steep price? That's what kind of rationale you get when you hire a 26 year old gm who has a company called stathletes I guess. Tell everyone how his stats make whatever case he wants while he tanks and collects picks no different from the losers up north did. At least Arizona doesn't have Dreger acting as their mouthpiece trying to reinforce their asinine player values.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Career if you take away his one good season his save percentage is .910. And in this case that is a fair thing to do because it is a major outlier at .930.

Just to contrast, Chad Johnson's career save percentage is .915. Elliot is .913.

Somebody said he was making 40 saves a game... well if that was the case based on his save percentage he was also letting in about 4 goals a game.

I get the quality of chance argument but his save percentage hasn't been good since 2011-12 and was below average even before that. Really when you look at his career that was his only really good NHL season. He has never been an elite goalie except that one blip year. Even in the minors.

For me he's overrated. And that's not to say he's not a passable NHL starter, but he is middle of the pack at best, probably slightly below. His save percentage has never been that high, on a defensive team, and he is a bit of a hothead.

But for me the kicker is that goofball GM they have spouting off about how the price will be steep. Doing his job I guess but teams should stay away. Old, overpaid and average stats but he will cost a steep price? That's what kind of rationale you get when you hire a 26 year old gm who has a company called stathletes I guess. Tell everyone how his stats make whatever case he wants while he tanks and collects picks no different from the losers up north did. At least Arizona doesn't have Dreger acting as their mouthpiece trying to reinforce their asinine player values.

You do realize that on that Coyotes team Carey Price would be around a .910 percentage as well?

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You do realize that on that Coyotes team Carey Price would be around a .910 percentage as well?

I get the point but I don't buy it - his save percentage was bad when he played for Dallas. It was bad when he played for Tampa too.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Can you explain what a "systems goalie" means in regards to ability to stop pucks? I get that he's a good puck handler and can help with puck retrieval, transition, etc but I don't see how that has any bearing on how well he keeps pucks out of the net.

It's just a buzzword said about every goalie who doesn't make sportscenter highlights every week. In reality guys like Holtby, Lundqvist, Price, Rinne, Murray... all depend on steady systems and solid defensive play in front of them to prevent cross ice action, tie up sticks, and allow the goalie to see the puck.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Matty81

I get the point but I don't buy it - his save percentage was bad when he played for Dallas. It was bad when he played for Tampa too.

Smith was arguably the worst starting goaltender in the NHL in the 2014/15 season as well. Is that an outlier season or simply a sign of things to come if his play slips a bit more as he ages?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Career if you take away his one good season his save percentage is .910. And in this case that is a fair thing to do because it is a major outlier at .930.

Just to contrast, Chad Johnson's career save percentage is .915. Elliot is .913.

Somebody said he was making 40 saves a game... well if that was the case based on his save percentage he was also letting in about 4 goals a game.

I get the quality of chance argument but his save percentage hasn't been good since 2011-12 and was below average even before that. Really when you look at his career that was his only really good NHL season. He has never been an elite goalie except that one blip year. Even in the minors.

For me he's overrated. And that's not to say he's not a passable NHL starter, but he is middle of the pack at best, probably slightly below. His save percentage has never been that high, on a defensive team, and he is a bit of a hothead.

But for me the kicker is that goofball GM they have spouting off about how the price will be steep. Doing his job I guess but teams should stay away. Old, overpaid and average stats but he will cost a steep price? That's what kind of rationale you get when you hire a 26 year old gm who has a company called stathletes I guess. Tell everyone how his stats make whatever case he wants while he tanks and collects picks no different from the losers up north did. At least Arizona doesn't have Dreger acting as their mouthpiece trying to reinforce their asinine player values.

Thanks for that post. Sometimes it really is that simple and we do not need to manipulate stats to make them more intricate than they need to be. Smith had one really good season, but has been average to bad most of his career. Especially for a goalie that make almost $6 million per year for the next 3 years. He would be an anchor for what he makes and what he delivers. If it was a one-year deal, it would be a lot easier to take (just like Elliot who I thought was a poor choice, but at least the term and salary made sense).

If we get Smith, it will be a waste of a rebuild for the next 3 seasons. Even if just for optics, if the Flames don't get serious in net, it will kill any goodwill players currently have when it comes to signing contracts.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You do realize that on that Coyotes team Carey Price would be around a .910 percentage as well?

Are you suggesting that Mike Smith is just as good as Carey Price?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

It's just a buzzword said about every goalie who doesn't make sportscenter highlights every week. In reality guys like Holtby, Lundqvist, Price, Rinne, Murray... all depend on steady systems and solid defensive play in front of them to prevent cross ice action, tie up sticks, and allow the goalie to see the puck.

So like Elliott in St. Louis?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Thanks for that post. Sometimes it really is that simple and we do not need to manipulate stats to make them more intricate than they need to be. Smith had one really good season, but has been average to bad most of his career. Especially for a goalie that make almost $6 million per year for the next 3 years. He would be an anchor for what he makes and what he delivers. If it was a one-year deal, it would be a lot easier to take (just like Elliot who I thought was a poor choice, but at least the term and salary made sense).

If we get Smith, it will be a waste of a rebuild for the next 3 seasons. Even if just for optics, if the Flames don't get serious in net, it will kill any goodwill players currently have when it comes to signing contracts.

So, when you've made your mind up about something there is no need to look deeper into the stats because you might have to change your mind even though you really don't want to?

Mike Smith's career sv% WITHOUT his best season is 0.910% (BTW THAT is "manipulating" the stats to suit your beliefs)

Well, MAF's career sv% is 0.912 and he's had the benefit of back stopping a juggernaut all those years. If you take out his best season his career sv% is the same as Mike Smith's without his best season.

And then there's the whole "advanced goalie stats" I brought up which favor Smith, but we can't use that because it's complicated and manipulative apparently.

So, despite all that, somehow if we get Smith we're "wasting the rebuild", but if we get Fleury "at all costs" that equates to the Flames getting "serious in net"?

[ResAlien]

I have no basis in stats I just think Smith looks kinda greasy and I don't like him. Hoping for anyone else.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

So, when you've made your mind up about something there is no need to look deeper into the stats because you might have to change your mind even though you really don't want to?

Mike Smith's career sv% WITHOUT his best season is 0.910% (BTW THAT is "manipulating" the stats to suit your beliefs)

Well, MAF's career sv% is 0.912 and he's had the benefit of back stopping a juggernaut all those years. If you take out his best season his career sv% is the same as Mike Smith's without his best season.

And then there's the whole "advanced goalie stats" I brought up which favor Smith, but we can't use that because it's complicated and manipulative apparently.

So, despite all that, somehow if we get Smith we're "wasting the rebuild", but if we get Fleury "at all costs" that equates to the Flames getting "serious in net"?

I actually don't want either (I thought that was clear).

But if the only other choice is Mike Smith, then go for MAF. I am hoping that they are looking at more than just those 2 however.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I actually don't want either (I thought that was clear).

But if the only other choice is Mike Smith, then go for MAF. I am hoping that they are looking at more than just those 2 however.

That's the part that makes no sense to me, especially given the likely difference between the acquisition cost of the two, but each to their own I guess.

Unfortunately we're at a point it seems that no matter who the Flames end up with in net next season, that goalie is coming complete with lots of question marks.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

That's the part that makes no sense to me, especially given the likely difference between the acquisition cost of the two, but each to their own I guess.

Unfortunately we're at a point it seems that no matter who the Flames end up with in net next season, that goalie is coming complete with lots of question marks.

It's the elephant in the room with Treliving... much great work, but if he cannot solve the goalie issue yet again... and I do appreciate there are legitimate excuses. If another season is down the drain because of goaltending, how much patience will there be?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

That's the part that makes no sense to me, especially given the likely difference between the acquisition cost of the two, but each to their own I guess.

Unfortunately we're at a point it seems that no matter who the Flames end up with in net next season, that goalie is coming complete with lots of question marks.

Even if they are on par with each other, at least Fleury is only signed for 2 more seasons. If we are hoping one these post-apex goalies is the answer, I would prefer we mitigate the risk by signing the one with a smaller contract.

I hate the notion that we are looking for the lesser of two evils though. I would much prefer going after Raanta and Grubauer, and then challenging one to come out on top, even if the acquisition cost is higher. I would settle for one of them and let Rittich and Gillies fight it out.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Even if they are on par with each other, at least Fleury is only signed for 2 more seasons. If we are hoping one these post-apex goalies is the answer, I would prefer we mitigate the risk by signing the one with a smaller contract.

I hate the notion that we are looking for the lesser of two evils though. I would much prefer going after Raanta and Grubauer, and then challenging one to come out on top, even if the acquisition cost is higher. I would settle for one of them and let Rittich and Gillies fight it out.

Smith is also signed for just two more years.

Going young with the goaltending wouldn't hurt my feelings either, especially when you consider that Treliving was rumored to be in on Talbot, Jones and Murray (before he blew up). That tells me he and his pro scouts have a pretty decent eye for projectable young goalies.

[dammage79]

The best happy medium between age salary and ability is Steve Mason. I still want no one else other than Korpisalo, but I'm also very aware that Goalie aquisition is going to be a tough go for the Flames. No one is just going to hand over a good goalie without taking their pound of flesh from the team.

In terms of trade, Halak and Lehtonen may be the cheapest, followed by Smith and the price is really going to skyrocket after that.

There are the Eddie Lacks or Can Wards of the world too but meh, I think you can do better in the UFA market alone.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

It's the elephant in the room with Treliving... much great work, but if he cannot solve the goalie issue yet again... and I do appreciate there are legitimate excuses. If another season is down the drain because of goaltending, how much patience will there be?

In fairness to Tre, last off season he did go out and get two of the top save % goalies from the year before, and although neither guy was a bonafide starter, each one had played 40+ games so they could in theory share the work load.

He also got them for just a 2nd round pick spent in acquisition cost (plus a 3rd if Elliott comes back) and a combined less than $4 million against the cap in a season where we were really struggling to get under the cap mainly because of bad signings made prior to Tre taking over (Smid, Wideman, Stajan).

The to top it all off the Flames went from 30th in sv% (0.892) to T19th (0.907) and 30th in goals against (260) to 17th (221) and made the playoffs. So I wouldn't say the season went down the drain, although the playoffs sure did quickly.