[Rumour] Couple of teams have inquired about acquiring Ben Bishop's rights

[Snuffleupagus]

Unless Treliving is willing to sign Bishop long term (6-7 yrs) he would be throwing away a pick/prospect. the only way Bishop accepts a shorter deal(2-3 yrs) is if he hits UFA and nobody offers the long term.

Ben Bishop will be 31 this year, yeah some goalies can play into their middle 30's (kipper,Brodeur) but this guy is a monster and typically the big guys can't sustain the reflexes that late. was his decline this year a fluke? I would guess not, he just didn't have a juggernaut team in front of him like his 14/16 lightning teams

Signing Bishop long term is also essentially saying goodbye to at least one of our top goalie prospects

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Old blow hards vs new blow hards. That's CP for you.

You are free to move on at any time.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by guuar

Long post...

I wasn't asking you to justify yourself to me. It's just that often when a member has inside info, they're asked to PM a mod to confirm their source. Obviously the mod keeps that information to themselves, but then can verify that the member isn't full of it.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

One of my many pet peeves, but players don't get "nominated" for most of these trophies, they get voted on, and the top three are named as the finalists.
The voting is already known once the top three finalists are so named as finalists.

From NHL.com:

Vezina Trophy finalists unveiled
Sergei Bobrovsky of Blue Jackets, Braden Holtby of Capitals, Carey Price of Canadiens in running for award given to NHL's best goalie
NHL.com @NHL

https://www.nhl.com/news/holtby-bobr...ts/c-288937058

In regard to 2012-13, the year to which you are referring, Hiller received one second place vote. That is not a nomination.

Aside: I am surprised the winner doesn't ever get leaked.

Yeah, fair enough. I called Bishop a nominee first, Vezina finalist would have been better.

Even still, I can't believe I just wasted all that time arguing with a guy who didn't even know that buy nominated (or finalist) I meant top 3 in voting for #### sakes.

Bringing up an endless list of donkey goalies and comparing them to Bishop just because they were top 10 in voting one year half a decade or more ago.

Now I'm sure he'll come back and move the goal posts at some point too.

[ComixZone]

...not to be a complete dingus (well, kinda), but that 2016 1st round pick for Drouin + Bishop deal almost sounds on point timing wise.

The rumours were the Flames were in contact with the Bishop camp right up into the draft, and as per Bishop himself, he thought they were going forward with it and that he would be a Flame. So it's not crazy to think that once Treliving saw that Tkachuk was going to drop to 6 (which I believe they knew as soon as Columbus drafted Dubois), that he then pivoted and decided that Tkachuk + Elliott > Drouin + Bishop, and decided to go down that path.

...fun to think about all the crazy possibilities that could have been going on at that time. From Tampa's perspective, the 6th overall for Bishop + a disgruntled Drouin makes a whole lot of sense. At the time, there was the rumour of the 1st round pick being involved for Bishop, but there's no way that it was the 1st for Bishop straight up - that's robbery on Tampa's behalf.

...or ya know, it's all just crazy internet noise.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Bishop for something like 6 years scares the bejesus out of me. I like him, and think he could still have 2 or 3 really good seasons in him, but 6 years feels way too long. Feels Lucic-like. And that's not a compliment.

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Aside: I am surprised the winner doesn't ever get leaked.

There was one year I remember when all the winners got leaked the morning of for whatever reason. I think it was the year Fedorov won the Hart Trophy.

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Bishop for something like 6 years scares the bejesus out of me. I like him, and think he could still have 2 or 3 really good seasons in him, but 6 years feels way too long. Feels Lucic-like. And that's not a compliment.

I agree. And I think if we can't stomach Bishop for 6 years let's find someone else because he won't sign for less.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Bishop for something like 6 years scares the bejesus out of me. I like him, and think he could still have 2 or 3 really good seasons in him, but 6 years feels way too long. Feels Lucic-like. And that's not a compliment.

Plenty of goalies can play until they are 36

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Bishop for something like 6 years scares the bejesus out of me. I like him, and think he could still have 2 or 3 really good seasons in him, but 6 years feels way too long. Feels Lucic-like. And that's not a compliment.

I think given the mostly abysmal goaltending of the past few seasons the Flames are willing to gamble long term if they feel they could get three solid years out of Bishop.

[Roof-Daddy]

Yeah, you can't piss away the next few years hoping for band-aid solutions in goal. Go get the best guy available, who also happens to have lowest acquisition cost to boot.

Sure, there is always a chance Bishop won't perform to expectations, but the same could said of every single goalie that Treliving could go out and acquire right now. Might as well put your faith into the only guy available with 2 Vezina nominations over the last 4 seasons, and who also put up awesome numbers in the post season while taking his team deep twice.

If the Flames give Bishop a 6 year deal, and he's a top 5-10 goalie in the league over the 1st 3 years of that deal, backstops the Flames to playoff spots, a division title or two and maybe a deep run in the playoffs, and Gillies and/or Parsons develop into real studs, is anyone here really going to complain about the last 3 years of that deal?

At that point he's probably still a really good goalie that can be traded to make way for the younger guy, or you can flip the younger guy for a Talbot/Jones/Andersen type return.

[guuar]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah, fair enough. I called Bishop a nominee first, Vezina finalist would have been better.

Even still, I can't believe I just wasted all that time arguing with a guy who didn't even know that buy nominated (or finalist) I meant top 3 in voting for #### sakes.

Bringing up an endless list of donkey goalies and comparing them to Bishop just because they were top 10 in voting one year half a decade or more ago.

Now I'm sure he'll come back and move the goal posts at some point too.

Awards are a really poor way for determining value and performance. I haven't paid close to attention to them since Iginla was robbed of the hart trophy in 2001-2002.

That was the year Iginla and Theodore tied for voting. It was later discovered a voter from montreal abstained from voting from Iginla at all and intentionally cost Iginla that hart trophy.

With the Vezina up until 2012 it was an award of the elite of elite goalies. Only 5 winners from 2004-2012. Brodeur x3 Thomas x 2 Kiprusoff x 1 Miller x 1 Lundqvist x 1.

The past 4 years it seems like if your GAA and Wins are Top in the league then the award is yours. It doesn't seem to really account for advanced stats that show a goalie's high danger save percentage vs low danger save percentage.

Reality is there is a difference between a goalie like Bishop and a goalie like Elliot and omg Jonas Hiller.

Ben Bishop is the kind of goalie that a team has absolute faith in. This allows a team to take more risks offensively knowing their goal will be there to stop the puck.

You can tell just from the last 4 playoff games alone. The Calgary Flames team did not have that kind of confidence in Elliot at all. The entire saddledome had the feeling that every shot on net had a chance to go in.

Watching other series you see goalies that are the exact opposite. They seem to stop everything and its amazing when a puck actually goes in.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by guuar

Awards are a really poor way for determining value and performance. I haven't paid close to attention to them since Iginla was robbed of the hart trophy in 2001-2002.

That was the year Iginla and Theodore tied for voting. It was later discovered a voter from montreal abstained from voting from Iginla at all and intentionally cost Iginla that hart trophy.

With the Vezina up until 2012 it was an award of the elite of elite goalies. Only 5 winners from 2004-2012. Brodeur x3 Thomas x 2 Kiprusoff x 1 Miller x 1 Lundqvist x 1.

The past 4 years it seems like if your GAA and Wins are Top in the league then the award is yours. It doesn't seem to really account for advanced stats that show a goalie's high danger save percentage vs low danger save percentage.

Reality is there is a difference between a goalie like Bishop and a goalie like Elliot and omg Jonas Hiller.

Ben Bishop is the kind of goalie that a team has absolute faith in. This allows a team to take more risks offensively knowing their goal will be there to stop the puck.

You can tell just from the last 4 playoff games alone. The Calgary Flames team did not have that kind of confidence in Elliot at all. The entire saddledome had the feeling that every shot on net had a chance to go in.

Watching other series you see goalies that are the exact opposite. They seem to stop everything and its amazing when a puck actually goes in.

You don't have to sell me on Bishop, I'm already sold. I suspect Treliving is as well.

[guuar]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think given the mostly abysmal goaltending of the past few seasons the Flames are willing to gamble long term if they feel they could get three solid years out of Bishop.

3 is all they need. By then Gillies should have enough grooming to be ready for a #1a/#1b scenario with Bishop.

The only downside for ownership is you are going to pay Bishop 40M for what is likely 3 to 4 years of a #1 starting goalie where years 5 to 6 he is likely to be the backup.

Personally, I think it's the ideal fit. It's the exact thing we were trying to accomplish with Kiprusoff. However, every young goalie we drafted and thought it was perfect didn't work....

Brent Krahn, Leland Irving and Joni Ortio. All busts.

Ironically I think it was 1998 when the Calgary Flames finally drafted a #1 goalie.

Craig Andersen.

For some reason we never signed him and he went back into the draft where Chicago drafted him.

A little ironic that the one goalie we don't sign ends up developing into a decent #1 goalie.

[chummer]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Bishop for something like 6 years scares the bejesus out of me. I like him, and think he could still have 2 or 3 really good seasons in him, but 6 years feels way too long. Feels Lucic-like. And that's not a compliment.

Agreed, rather have Miller for two years.

[PepsiFree]

You know, I've softened on Bishop. I still don't think this season was just "an outlier" when you compare his stats to other goaltenders each year, but he is undoubtedly one of the most likely shots for a proven starter. He's got warts, he can give up on pucks in a pretty ridiculous way, and sometimes gets lazy. But when he's on, he is a better goalie than we've seen in years. I don't believe he's like Elliott or MAF who, when something gets in their head, they completely crumble. But I do believe he's more like what we're seeing from Gibson, who just has genuinely bad games from time to time and doesn't seem to care. That's better than mental weakness.

The price scares me, but only because I'm sitting here counting on a handful of other chickens to hatch. Bennett, Gillies, Parsons, etc... these guys may never reach a "big money" level, Gillies and Parsons may never make it as starters... so why balk at Bishop's asking price because we're scared of having to make a trade in 3-4 years?

I say sign him. I've come around. I stand by my concerns and my perception of the player, but go all in. Big names are exciting and Bishop is a big name. If he fails he fails, and we're screwed. But so be it. Teams have been in worse binds before.

The Flames have time from a talent perspective, but why spend it on acquiring more, equally big "maybes" than you have already.

[dino7c]

Kipper had plenty of bad games...no goalie is perfect, you just need a guy who doesn't have bad weeks or months

[guuar]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

You don't have to sell me on Bishop, I'm already sold. I suspect Treliving is as well.

Nobody should need to sold. The guy is a winner. He has risen to the top everywhere he's went.

I just hope Treliving isn't still hung up on Matt Murray. He sees a young 22 year old kid who is turning into a really good #1 and won't give it up. He did the same thing with Hamilton. He continually inquired about Hamilton until finally it happened. I know he was close to a trade for both Bishop and Murray at the draft last year.

Whatever goalie he gets the team will be his defining moment as a GM. Thus far his transactions have been average to suspect at best.

Outside of Frolik his UFA signings aren't very good.

I also get a feeling he had little choice on Elliot as St. Louis had an offer from Dallas as well.

[Vinny01]

Matt Murray would still be the best option for this team. They can afford to keep Johnson as a backup and add a 23 year old number 1 that has won a cup and dominated since he turned pro. I would give up Backlund+Gillies for Murray

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Matt Murray would still be the best option for this team. They can afford to keep Johnson as a backup and add a 23 year old number 1 that has won a cup and dominated since he turned pro. I would give up Backlund+Gillies for Murray

I'd rather get a goalie for this team where we don't have to rip the spine from it by dealing our best defensive center in the process. I like Murray though, just rather see something else go the other way where the Flames aren't significantly subtracting from their roster in another area.