Saddledome Event Recap - Brian Burke State of the Union

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by mdubz

They can't tell him to GTFO, he has a NMC. He's stuck with the team all season/playoffs no matter what.

they can tell him to go home...if in fact he is causing problems

suspended with pay

[Buff]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If Wideman is the most hated guy in the organization, why is are the veteran leaders (especially Gio and Stajan) going out with him?

I fully believe that Wideman is not happy, and probably not giving it hard in practice. I have a feeling that GG's meetings were more in the nature of "keep your chin up" than "you are a loser".

Let pretend that he is the most hated guy in the organization. It doesn't automatically mean that everybody hates him. Maybe 4 people hate Brian Burke, and 6 people hate Gulutzan, but 9 people hate Wideman. Then he's the most hated, but not hated by all.

[You Need a Thneed]

I'd still want him around for depth. He isn't further down than 8th on the depth chart.

[united]

Not so much disliked by other players, in fact one of the running jokes among them is how much he swears in every circumstance. Happy swearing, calm swearing, angry swearing. All the swearing.

The issue with being hated is because he completely threw the training staff under the bus in the Henderson incident. Dragging those guys into it pissed a lot of people off.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I think it is also important to remember that media member close to the team doesn't mean media member is part of the team.

These guys are prone to bias, exaggeration, hyperbole and mistakes just like the rest of us. While they may be closer to the team than your average fan or CPer, it doesn't make them infallible.

I'd take this rumour with a grain of salt, just like all rumours.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by united

Not so much disliked by other players, in fact one of the running jokes among them is how much he swears in every circumstance. Happy swearing, calm swearing, angry swearing. All the swearing.

The issue with being hated is because he completely threw the training staff under the bus in the Henderson incident. Dragging those guys into it pissed a lot of people off.

First, citation needed.

Second, you mean the team threw the training staff under the bus? Or are you trying to insinuate that Wideman made up the concussion thing without the teams knowledge or consent and the team was forced to go along with it to avoid losing face. In which case, citation needed. Again.

[Bear]

I posted about Monahan's respect for Gio in another thread and seeing as much of the discussion in this one is around Gio's leadership I thought I'd throw the same quote plus a couple more in here:


“He’s a great captain and I couldn’t be happier that he’s wearing the C while I’m on the team. He’s easy to look up to. He comes in every day and does his job with passion. I’ve been training with Gio all summer. To have your captain push you all summer to be better is important. He’s been a great role model.”

"The guy I looked up to my first year - and still do - is Gio. He's our captain, our leader for a reason. My first year I'd come home and tell my mom 'Gio's doing this' or 'Gio's doing that.' Let's just say she heard a lot about Gio.”

“To get recognized for it, it's pretty special but at the same time, that's something our organization does. A lot of guys take a lot of pride in that and it starts with Gio. Since I came in here as an 18-year-old, I've been following his lead."

Worth adding IMO that Gio being praised has no reflection on Iggy. It doesn't take long on a google search to find many a compliment thrown Jarome's way for his qualities as a leader from a wide array of former teammates.

We are lucky in that strong leadership has been a constant in our recent past and appears to be in good hands going forward.

[Classic_Sniper]

I'm not surprised about the whole Wideman situation. It's a contract year and he probably knows that getting a job elsewhere has taken a major dive with his demotion. However, I do remember seeing a few of the guys out and about after a game a few years ago and Wideman didn't appear to be the most affable or happy guy.

Gio on the other hand was phenomenal. He was smiling the entire night, enjoying some quality time with his teammates and even took pictures and signed autographs for some people who recognized him. I can definitely see why people would say Gio is a terrific leader and in my personal opinion, he's the perfect captain. Works hard night in and night out, doesn't cheat in any aspect of the game and is the type of guy his teammates can appreciate as the leader of the team because he shows it on the ice rather than just says it. The last thing you want from a captain is a selfish player with a low work ethic, who cheats for offense and acts like an entitled spoiled brat. Thank goodness we don't have that for a captain.

As for Iggy, I thought I remember there being a division in the room between him and Regehr. I distinctly remember hearing that both players didn't see eye to eye about how the team should play. Robyn was certainly looked at as a leader on the team and wasn't afraid to criticize players for not back checking or cheating for offense. So I could definitely see there being division in the room especially since the team could never make it out of the first round.

[CGY12]

I can certainly feel apathy for a guy who is slowly seeing his career fade and understand the fact that he probably has checked out, but IF what the original poster is saying is true and IF the coach has had to bring him in on more than one occasion to remind him to be a pro and a good teammate (assuming its from conduct detrimental to the team), Wideman can pound sand!

[sa226]

The sports media are certainly not immune to bias, especially when they are around the team as much as they are.

George Johnson is looked upon quite favorably around these parts. He is a great writer who got the short end of the stick when he lost his job.

But it wasn't that long ago that his writing was dripping in the disdain he had for Darryl Sutter.

[Enoch Root]

There are actually Flames fans on this site that think we should leave Giordano exposed in the expansion draft.

I laugh out loud every time I think about it.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Quite frankly, you have no idea what Wideman "deserves" or does not deserve. He is a human being who is clearly suffering through a professional rough patch, and is facing the inevitable end of a career that he loves. As fellow human beings we should all be capable of empathizing with how that must feel.

Wideman's days as a NHLer are done, and I wish him nothing but prosperity and well being in the future.

His days are done after damaging this teams reputation across the league and with the refs. His days are done after being paid a ridiculous amount of money over the last 5 years. If he wants to be an ass and carry himself like an entitled pos that's his decision. I don't feel pitty for a guy who has banked in an insane amount of money and is now all pissy that he isn't getting playing time. Why anyone would pitty him is beyond me. It's a cut throat business and Wideman should know this, he's benefited greatly from it. I would like to know what Wideman has done for the ref after he may of ended his career. He is "suffering" because of himself and how he has underperformed, I don't feel bad for him for one second. The world is filled with many people who really do struggle every day, maybe Wideman is struggling with something else I don't know, but I will not be empathetic towards someone who has had the career he's had and made the money he's made. Give me a break

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

People who run teams understand that players, and teams, have good years and bad years.

They understand that putting a winner together requires patience.

Unlike fans who look at the last few games and demand trades / firings after every loss.

I get the feeling you're misunderstanding me. First, I'm not demanding Brouwer be bought out or traded. Second, the matter of "should Troy Brouwer be left unprotected in the upcoming expansion draft" is anything but absolute. I'm not saying he will or he won't. I'm saying its reasonable that the Flames might might choose to do so.

I'm simply suggesting that IF - after 82 games and the post-season - Brouwer, (a 30 y/o non-core player) has played a season of mediocre hockey that deserves nothing near a $4.5m contract, the flames may look to leave him unprotected in an expansion draft because the cost-benefit outcome to keeping him isn't clear cut.

• First, if Vegas doesn't select Troy Brouwer, it means they're selecting someone else. There is a cost to that. For example, Bartkowski is signed for $0.65m - that's a lot of value for the cap space given how he's playing.
• Second, the flames have to give up assets in a side deal to keep Brouwer. There is an additional cost to that.
• Third, its unclear whether the flames would rather have $4.5m of cap space or Troy Brouwer under contract given how he's played this year.

You say that people who run teams understand that players have good years and bad years. I'd counter that the people running teams are also fallible but have the framework to understand that sometimes mistakes are made - and if the opportunity to get out of a mistake at a low cost comes around, they should consider taking it.

Is Troy Brouwer a good player? Yes.
Does he belong in Calgary's top 9? Yes.
Is he worth $4.5m for the next three seasons or is that money better spent elsewhere? 100% debatable.

[edn88]

I have a hard time feeling bad for Wideman (and I like Widedog). Any NHL player who is both mentally and physically healthy and has made over $10MM has a pretty good life. Wideman is certainly not having the best end to his career. Lots of other NHLers have been in similar situations and handled it with more grace.

I feel bad for Corey Hirsch and Brent Sopel (although both of them seem to have gotten their life together).

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by edn88

I have a hard time feeling bad for Wideman (and I like Widedog). Any NHL player who is both mentally and physically healthy and has made over $10MM has a pretty good life. Wideman is certainly not having the best end to his career. Lots of other NHLers have been in similar situations and handled it with more grace.

I feel bad for Corey Hirsch and Brent Sopel (although both of them seem to have gotten their life together).

Exactly, maybe Wideman is dealing with personal problems, if that's the case I would be empathetic but he seems to have a healthy family and has done very well for himself. I'm not going to feel bad for him after learning he is moping around and needed to be talked to by the coach. He should be grateful for what the Flames have given him and how they stood up for him last year and got him paid for 10 games he missed due to the suspension.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by edn88

I have a hard time feeling bad for Wideman (and I like Widedog). Any NHL player who is both mentally and physically healthy and has made over $10MM has a pretty good life. Wideman is certainly not having the best end to his career. Lots of other NHLers have been in similar situations and handled it with more grace.

Maybe. But I am not at all prepared to just take one anonymous reporter's word on this at face value. Even if what he is saying has a ring of truth to it, it is still second-hand information from an outside source—who seems possibly not all that reliably unbiased (see post #102 below). We simply can't know what is happening behind closed doors, and I prefer to reserve judgment in the absence of reliable information.

I feel bad for Corey Hirsch and Brent Sopel (although both of them seem to have gotten their life together).

Both of whom also did not make public their struggles until well after their NHL careers had ended.

[dino7c]

10M? try over 40M....that's right Dennis Wideman has made over 40M playing hockey

he gonna be alright

[curves2000]

I love when Burkie talks about the 2007 Ducks in a fashion as if he is the one who COMPLETLY ASSEMBLED THAT TEAM, when in fact he wasn't there for very long.

This guy takes more credit for massive changes in hockey more than any other person I have ever heard. He's

1) The one who started the big trend towards draft day deals with the drafting of the Sedin's and getting the pick needed to pick up both of them.

2) He's the one who "started the arms race with the 07 Anaheim team" I guess size, speed, toughness and skill's aren't hockey qualities that existed on any other NHL winning team prior to Mr. Burke becoming GM of the Ducks.

3) He takes such credit for the 2007 team when in reality the majority of the massive pieces in place, pieces which were vital to the Cup were already there before he should up. Burke made some smart moves and brought in some key players to win but let's not pretend this was an entire team made up by Brian. I have never seen an executive take so much credit for players who weren't drafted by him.

I am a Burke fan and am happy he's with our team but I can see where his personality and ego has affected his job in other markets such as Vancouver and Toronto which lead to his firing. Some people do forget that the guy left his existing role as GM of the Ducks to go save the Leafs with spectacularly poor results, something that hasn't happened in recent hockey history that I can recall.

[GoJetsGo]

I was a big fan of the Brouwer deal and supported the cap hit / term with the justifications you need to pay a premium for free agents and that it would be worth it based on the intangibles he brings.

Still hope that proves true and that we see him pick things up in the playoffs.

That said I am very underwhelmed by his season so far. He's really looking like a David Moss or a David Jones more than anything which is disappointing. Seeing very little grit out there from him and was hoping he'd be more of a pain to play against.

Hoping we see more in the playoffs but if we don't I'd be torn on what to do at the expansion draft. Three more years of the player he's been so far - or less than that - is worrisome.

[dino7c]

Does anyone really think Vegas would take Brouwer anyway?