How does such vetting work? I mean outside of criminal record vetting are you proposing going through their Facebook to see what beliefs they have? At any interview you will say what you need to to get in.
Most won't even get that.
It is almost impossible to do individual vetting because many are arriving without any identification whatsoever into Europe.
I don't think individual vetting is practical. This is a cultural thing - some countries (or regions in countries) are decades, or even centuries behind the West when it comes to attitudes towards women, sex, etc. In places where you can marry 14-year-olds, and where genders are largely segregated in public, it's not deviant to paw at half-naked teenage girls.
You can look at it this way: Imagine if we didn't have immigration by country, but instead by time. So we had a time machine, and could dial up Canadians from the past to come and live in our Canada today. Would we have more trouble integrating Canadians from 1990, or Canadians from 1890?
Wait, but I thought we're to judge people as individuals? Just to be clear, I somewhat agree with you but you're kind of contradicting your supposed commitment to liberalism. This guy could just flat out be a pervert.
During the immigration process, don't they go over things like this? Groping teenage girls is a no no, touching women who are not being escorted by men, etc...
You'd think the CBC would have determined this prior to printing a story identifying a refugee as someone who had been arrested for committing a crime.
Wait, but I thought we're to judge people as individuals? Just to be clear, I somewhat agree with you but you're kind of contradicting your supposed commitment to liberalism. This guy could just flat out be a pervert.
During the immigration process, don't they go over things like this? Groping teenage girls is a no no, touching women who are not being escorted by men, etc...
No. They have to be standing in front of a judge before they get the don't be a wanker talk...
“You are now in Canada. We do not place restrictions on the way that women live here, unlike in some other countries,” said MacDonald, adding it is “very sad” that Moradi doesn’t see it.
I remember seeing that story last year and thinking re-education camps might not be a bad idea.
Wait, but I thought we're to judge people as individuals? Just to be clear, I somewhat agree with you but you're kind of contradicting your supposed commitment to liberalism. This guy could just flat out be a pervert.
I've never said this guy should be treated any differently by the law because of his origins. But when it comes to public policy over immigration and refugees, we need to recognize that social norms in parts of the world are dramatically different from our own, and are likely to pose real challenges to integration.
It never ceases to amaze me how progressives, of all people, have such a blind spot to the ultra-conservatism of other cultures. They can't seem to be able to bring themselves to recognize that misogyny, far from being a peculiar defect of Western culture, is in fact far more evident and tolerated in most of the rest of the world.
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I don't think individual vetting is practical. This is a cultural thing - some countries (or regions in countries) are decades, or even centuries behind the West when it comes to attitudes towards women, sex, etc. In places where you can marry 14-year-olds, and where genders are largely segregated in public, it's not deviant to paw at half-naked teenage girls.
You can look at it this way: Imagine if we didn't have immigration by country, but instead by time. So we had a time machine, and could dial up Canadians from the past to come and live in our Canada today. Would we have more trouble integrating Canadians from 1990, or Canadians from 1890?
Yeah, this is kind of important.
When you come from a culture where women are either property or worthless its not just something that you can necessarily legislate.
"Hi, Welcome to Canada, here is your SIN card and remember in this country Women are humans and have rights just like you. Have a nice day and Merry Christmas!"
How do you try and change something that has been socially and culturally ingrained for generations?
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How do you try and change something that has been socially and culturally ingrained for generations?
Basically, conversation, education and community. It seems to me that part of the problem is balkanization, like staying with like. Which is understandable, obviously, if you're coming to a new country, having a social circle comprised of people who share your culture, values, language, and so forth is comforting. But breaking down those barriers and enclaves a bit more couldn't hurt, or so it seems to me.
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Immigration to a liberal society changes people's calues. Kids going to school. The women who are oppressed reloading they have power. Just being in a liberal society liberalizes people.
Look at the older case posted where the man got in a fight with his wife's boss. His wife divorced him. Their kids will have integrated.
The first gen immigrant will always have a challenge integrating. Successful integration is when the kids of the first gen share western liberal values.
Yeah, but as we see in England and France in particular, that doesn't always work. The most extreme elements aren't generally the first generation immigrants, they're the second generation. The Paris attackers, for example. In theory what you say makes sense, but in practice it doesn't seem to pan out in a distressing number of cases, and it's not entirely clear to me why.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Basically, conversation, education and community. It seems to me that part of the problem is balkanization, like staying with like. Which is understandable, obviously, if you're coming to a new country, having a social circle comprised of people who share your culture, values, language, and so forth is comforting. But breaking down those barriers and enclaves a bit more couldn't hurt, or so it seems to me.
Great, but it aint happening over night.
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Yeah, but as we see in England and France in particular, that doesn't always work. The most extreme elements aren't generally the first generation immigrants, they're the second generation. The Paris attackers, for example. In theory what you say makes sense, but in practice it doesn't seem to pan out in a distressing number of cases, and it's not entirely clear to me why.
I think a few things. Rate of immigration is important as if you can live in a conservative enclave like the Rural US you never liberalize. As well, education standards that enforce English language learning, and cultural history. Maybe the most important aspect will be class mobility. If you don't have the opportunity to Improve the life your parents lived in after Immigrating I think you would begin to resent the parent culture.
In Europe I would say that volume, private education and a lack of class mobility and a societal lack of acceptance of the outsider (they are much more white) would all be factors that make integration more difficult than in Canada
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Immigration to a liberal society changes people's calues. Kids going to school. The women who are oppressed reloading they have power. Just being in a liberal society liberalizes people.
Look at the older case posted where the man got in a fight with his wife's boss. His wife divorced him. Their kids will have integrated.
The first gen immigrant will always have a challenge integrating. Successful integration is when the kids of the first gen share western liberal values.
All true.
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Yeah, but as we see in England and France in particular, that doesn't always work. The most extreme elements aren't generally the first generation immigrants, they're the second generation. The Paris attackers, for example. In theory what you say makes sense, but in practice it doesn't seem to pan out in a distressing number of cases, and it's not entirely clear to me why.
A few things:
As I mentioned before, less educated immigrants find it much more difficult to integrate into a secular country. Not only are they less likely to learn the native language, they tend to be more religious, and less likely to mingle with locals in their jobs and social lives.
Chronically high youth unemployment. This is especially a problem in France, where most 29 year olds have never held a job. When the jobs are more costly and more secure, then there are less of them at the bottom of the employment ladder, and you have a society where there's a kind of moat between those with secure jobs (the educated and older) and those who don't have any jobs at all (the young and uneducated).
Western Europe is even more socially liberal than North America. More hostile to religion, more tolerant of public displays of sexuality (ie topless sunbathing), public drinking, and other hedonistic vices. A young Muslim man going to university in England is likely to feel extremely alienated from the dominant culture of heavy drinking and casual promiscuity.
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How do you try and change something that has been socially and culturally ingrained for generations?
If they're unwilling to learn a new culture they shouldn't be invited, why? because in the near future our own culture will be in trouble, christianity and other major religions are declining fast and islam is growing really fast.
From Pew:
This video sums it up, before you shake it off watch it.
If the muslim world doesn't adapt to our culture we'll have to adapt to their's.
If they're unwilling to learn a new culture they shouldn't be invited, why? because in the near future our own culture will be in trouble, christianity and other major religions are declining fast and islam is growing really fast.
From Pew:
This video sums it up, before you shake it off watch it.
If the muslim world doesn't adapt to our culture we'll have to adapt to their's.
That is such utter racist junk. Why should I care that Christianity or any other fairy tale is declining?
Our "Culture" is virtually unrecognizable compared to 50 years ago and in 50 years will be again unrecognizable. Iran was far different 60 years ago while being just as Islamic as today.
What you're worried about is that white people are declining. You should be more worried about Chinese as the religion thing is merely a red herring. What if we're all eating rice in the future?
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That is such utter racist junk. Why should I care that Christianity or any other fairy tale is declining?
Our "Culture" is virtually unrecognizable compared to 50 years ago and in 50 years will be again unrecognizable. Iran was far different 60 years ago while being just as Islamic as today.
What you're worried about is that white people are declining. You should be more worried about Chinese as the religion thing is merely a red herring. What if we're all eating rice in the future?
Fifty years and Canada is the next Iran? And youre not concerned?
