Treliving w/o contract for next year

[TheScorpion]

Here are the Flames when Treliving was hired:

Cammalleri - Stajan - Hudler
Glencross - Monahan - Jones
Gaudreau - Backlund - Colborne
McGrattan - Bouma - Westgarth
Byron

Giordano - Brodie
Russell - Wideman
Butler - O'Brien
Smid

Ramo
MacDonald

The Flames were a mess when BT inherited them. The previous year (2013-14), they had used an astounding 40 skaters. They had no goaltending -- Ramo was the only decent guy they had in net. They went through two Joneses; guys like Chad Billins, Derek Smith and Ben Street all featured prominently on the roster; and their top scorer only had 54 points. Oh, and holy hell, that bottom pairing.

Flash-forward to now.

Gaudreau - Bennett - Chiasson
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Versteeg - Monahan - Brouwer
Bouma - Stajan - Hathaway
Hamilton

Giordano - Hamilton
Brodie - Wideman
Jokipakka - Engelland
Kulak

Johnson
Elliott

That's what I call cleaning house, and for the better. The 2013-14 team had one Cup winner (Hudler). Today's team has three: Versteeg, Brouwer, and Frolik. The prospect cupboard has been greatly filled, the goaltending situation has improved, and the team has gone from 27th place to being a team capable of winning a playoff round (or two).

Holes still remain. Alex Chiasson is no more a top-line right-winger than David Jones was (and is certainly worse than Hudler was), while the goaltending isn't 100% figured out. And there will be numerous better options in free agency at the #4D spot than Wideman.

But Treliving's track record speaks for itself. The trades have, for the most part, all been fantastic. He's had a few bad signings, but they haven't been catastrophic. Remember Mason Raymond? Me neither. Brandon Bollig? I hear he's having a good year in the A. These won't stop us from going out this summer and signing a Michael Stone to play with Brodie, or to trade for a right winger to play with #13 and #23.

BT has made an incredible impact. There's no reason he shouldn't be extended.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by the2bears

It was constructive criticism, not a public insult. Come on, this has been discussed to death. Do you really want to keep a player who is so mentally weak that he can't handle being told he needs to work harder in all 3 zones?

I don't see it as mental weakness. Anybody who gets publicly embarrassed would sour themselves towards an organization. It's human nature to react defensively, not analytically. It's because it's personal and therefore emotional.

I've been in management a long time and there are the odd times that I've had a worker use a general meeting for an audience to bitch and get attention, and every time I've publicly rebuttaled, it never ends well. The professional thing to do, which is just basic management 101, is to take that person aside and deal with it privately.

It is chicken #### to tarnish a man's name behind their backs and go public like that. But you're right it's been talked to death about it. I'm not butt hurt about it, but the loss of Baertschi is on management, as well as Baertschi himself and former coaching. Right now the Flames are struggling to score goals and losing talent is not good for a business that is dependent on talent. That's a notch in management, whether it's deserved or not.

[dino7c]

Some of the same people who said 3 years ago that it would be at least 4-5 years until we make the playoffs...are now complaining about a bubble team that is hanging on to a spot in January

sometimes I wonder

[dino7c]

Baertchi said "guarantee me a top 6 roster spot or trade me"

that is really the end of the discussion, move had to be made...besides it could very well turn out to be a good trade even with Sven putting up numbers on a bad team

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Baertchi said "guarantee me a top 6 roster spot or trade me"

that is really the end of the discussion, move had to be made...besides it could very well turn out to be a good trade even with Sven putting up numbers on a bad team

And he also said that if they didn't, he would simply play in Europe. Which I think was an honest statement. And within his rights as a pending RFA.

[Monahan For Mayor]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Just looked up Colborne's stats. Wow. BT should be extended solely on letting Colborne walk.

4 pts in 32 games, and hasn't had a POINT since Oct 20 (game 4). No points in 28 games!!

29 SOG total in 32 games.

Unreal.

Not surprising. He was bad in Calgary. Still don't know why people thought he was any good. 70% of his points last year were goals off his ass.

[dino7c]

Colborne 4 points in 32 games after a hatty in game one lol

[Classic_Sniper]

The questions that should actually be asked are:

1) Who out there would be a better option then Brad Treliving? If the answer is no, then you re-sign him.

2) If the above is answer is no one, then why hasn't he been signed yet? I wonder if Burke has someone else in mind or if the head executives have decided to go a different direction.


*For the record, I think he's made more positive decisions then bad and has a pragmatic outlook that gives me confidence that he'll make a thorough and well thought-out decision. I know one thing, I wouldn't be sad to see Brian "Mr. Truculence" Burke gone and his whole philosophy.

[Sylvanfan]

I hope they extend him for two more years and see what he can do as he gets to clear out the last of his inherited baggage. I think he's done enough to get more time. Don't be that team that keeps changing with no real plan.

[Strange Brew]

Trading Sven was the right decision given the situation. Where the organization needs to prove itself is in actually developing players who don't make it right out of junior or college.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Hence why I said he has shown competence. Even Treliving's worst moves are comparable to Feaster's best.

Is that a serious comment? You'd compare signing Raymond and buying him out to signing Hudler for example?

[Mike F]

IMO, Treliving has done a generally good job as GM, but has made two large mistakes that have seriously hamstrung the team:

1. In 15-16 he left the goaltender situation in a total mess, particularly to start the season, where the Flames dug a hole they could never get out of; and
2. in 16-17 he appears to have misfired on the coaching hire, saddling the team with Gulutzen who, remarkably, has managed to coach Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Giordano, and Brody (what was supposed to make up virtually the entire core) into big steps back in their development

All-in-all, I think ownership needs to take a long, hard look at what else is on the market, but in the end I expect Treliving to get a short- to mid-range extension.

[bax]

A little off topic, but it makes me chuckle when people compare running an NHL team and all the dynamics that come with it to an office/management job. There is no comparison to be had there. Working in an office is a million times different than playing in the NHL.

[Enoch Root]

Nobody likes a 3 goalie system. However, last year's version of the Flames is not the first team to put themselves in that position. It isn't ideal, and it can't be employed long term. However, that is no excuse for the goalies to have all played like complete ass. The situation is on Treliving, but the abysmal play is on the goalies.

Also, that bad start resulted in Tkachuk, so...

As for the coaching, far too early to make an assessment. Gulutzan and his staff have definitely made some improvements. They have also had some challenges. Let's see how it plays out - way too premature to call it a failure or a mistake.

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by Johnny Rotten

I don't even know why this is an issue- There will always be mistakes. I'm old enough to remember Fletcher getting flak (i.e. Steve Simmons) in the Flames' early days in Calgary.

It's not like Treliving traded Gilmour or offer-sheeted an RFA who could've been lost on waivers.

Fletcher was one of the all time best GMs in hockey, but do you remember him trading Mel Bridgeman and Phil Russel for Steve Tambelini and Joel Quenneville?

That trade set the Flames back tremendously.

Bridgeman goes on to score 280 gritty points - mostly for New Jersey. Russel plays 190 games - again, mostly for New Jersey.

Tambelinni scores 54 points over two seasons for the Flames and is released. Quenneville never plays for the Flames as he is traded 2 weeks later as part of a package for Mickey Volcan who plays 19 games for the Flames before being demoted to the AHL and finishing in Europe.

or

Ken Houston (physical 20 goal scorer) and Pat Riggin (NHL's second all star goalie in 2983-84) for Howard Walker and George While who combine for 3 NHL games

or

Willie Plett for Steve Christoff, Bill Nyrop, and a 2nd rounder.

Plett was an intimidating enforcer who could play. Was rookie of the year and scored 39 goals in the Flames first season. Went on to play 6 more seasons after being traded.

Steve Christoff went on to play two seasons and never hit 10 goals in a season. Bill Nyrop never plays for the Flames. The second rounder plays 2 NHL games.

Not every move will work out.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

As for the coaching, far too early to make an assessment. Gulutzan and his staff have definitely made some improvements. They have also had some challenges. Let's see how it plays out - way too premature to call it a failure or a mistake.

Far too early? Way too premature??

At the start of the season most said that you have to give a new coach up to a dozen games to make his mark on the team, now 46 isn't enough.

Frankly, if Gulutzen can't get a team in line after half a season, that in-and-of-itself is an indictment of his coaching skills.

This time last season the Flames were 20-20-3 (43 points in 43 games). Gulutzen has managed to push the team only 3 more games over .500 despite the 3rd easiest schedule in the league and with, for most stretches, NHL quality goaltending, and for some stretches top-notch NHL quality goaltending, something last season's team almost never had. That's not nearly good enough, IMO.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

I don't see it as mental weakness. Anybody who gets publicly embarrassed would sour themselves towards an organization. It's human nature to react defensively, not analytically. It's because it's personal and therefore emotional.

I've been in management a long time and there are the odd times that I've had a worker use a general meeting for an audience to bitch and get attention, and every time I've publicly rebuttaled, it never ends well. The professional thing to do, which is just basic management 101, is to take that person aside and deal with it privately.

It is chicken #### to tarnish a man's name behind their backs and go public like that. But you're right it's been talked to death about it. I'm not butt hurt about it, but the loss of Baertschi is on management, as well as Baertschi himself and former coaching. Right now the Flames are struggling to score goals and losing talent is not good for a business that is dependent on talent. That's a notch in management, whether it's deserved or not.

He wasn't getting it done before Burke's comments, he wasn't getting it done after, and he wouldn't be getting it done if he was still here. How on earth do you think trading Baertschi is a case of losing talent that they could somehow use now? Who draws out so you can put Sven in?

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't think Treliving needs to go. Maybe someone better becomes available in the off-season, maybe not. What I think is important for an organization is consistency. Treliving isn't perfect, but name me a single GM that is.

Treliving has been more good than bad (much more in my opinion), and the last thing I want to see happening is a new GM with a new vision coming in and taking a few more years to make the big adjustments that align with his philosophy.

Treliving hasn't been bad enough by anyone's standards to warrant that kind of upheaval.

[dying4acup]

IMO Treliving has made 2 mistakes.

In his first summer as Flames GM, he was too liberal with cap and term in free agency. Raymond was bought out. Billing demoted. Engellend has redeemed himself.

In his 2nd offseason he tied himself to a 3 goalie situation. In fairness, the Ortiz contract was signed by another GM, and the other 2 goalies helped bring the Flames to the 2nd round the year before.

If memory serves me right, Burke made some very negative comments about being a "lame duck" as a GM in his last year without a contract. I believe Tre has been re-upped, and it has not been announced yet.

[YYC in LAX]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

I believe Tre has been re-upped, and it has not been announced yet.

I agree. This has all the makings of a sign and trade situation.