PP/PK discussion (update 12th/11th) - now with PP snek

[iamca]

Hard to argue with numbers and facts. Teams that are perennial losers are in the bottom half of the league in both PP and PK, so when you are last in the league you will be in the bottom 5 consistently in the standings as well.

Suggestions have to include your talent on the PP as well as strategy (coaching) and execution. Hard to argue that all 3 are factors in these abysmal results.

The PK is different as talent is not a major factor. Hockey smarts and skating ability are critical components and speed and quickness can compensate for being caught out of position, however goaltending is also a large factor on the PK. You cannot overlook the PK strategy and the players execution.

I would also point out that when you practice against the worst PP and PK on a regular basis, your practice time is not really well spent...you're going against the worst every practice, so how are you improving or emulating your competition in a game situation?

Stockton is currently 18.2% on the PP good 14th in the AHL. Their PK percentage is currently at 87.5% good for 7th in the AHL. Pretty decent numbers in a 30 team league compared to the big club. Just for numbers sake, the Heat are 13th in the league standings, but because of the disparity in number of games played the Heat currently are 4th in the league with a .708 win percentage.

Why does this matter? Different league, different players, different coaches...all true, but the same organization, so the Heat are definitely better at special teams than the Flames. It's not a organizational problem top down, however it is really clear that the Flames need to get better on special teams. Staying the course with the same strategies, players seeing time on the PP and PK, as well as execution will yield the same consistently dreadful results.

The leaders and decision makers in the Flames organization need to demand some changes as staying the course will repeat the lack of success in the crucial areas of special teams.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I don't understand how Wideman either sits in the press box, or plays 22 minutes a night.

Because he has a NMC and management hands are tied. They hope he waives it because he's sick of being in the press box so much, and then when they play him, they showcase him so that they don't have to give up a first to part ways with him.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Because he has a NMC and management hands are tied. They hope he waives it because he's sick of being in the press box so much, and then when they play him, they showcase him so that they don't have to give up a first to part ways with him.

lol why would they do that...his contract is almost up

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by home_sweet_dome

When Wideman is getting more PP and PK time than Hamilton...you have a massive coaching problem.

This is the only issue i have with the coaching staff

[tvp2003]

IIRC our PP numbers improved considerably last year when Hamilton started getting PP time (and Wideman was taken off). You would think the new coaching staff would have researched this but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they didn't.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

IIRC our PP numbers improved considerably last year when Hamilton started getting PP time (and Wideman was taken off). You would think the new coaching staff would have researched this but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they didn't.

It's pretty shocking. I feel like GG had no idea about the individual strengths of out players when he came over. I still feel like he doesn't.

[tvp2003]

I just ran the numbers. Wideman's last game before being suspended was Jan 27, 2016. He did play three games after his suspension, but I haven't adjusted for that.

PP% up to January 27 - 13.5% (30th in NHL, 29th was a full 2% higher)
PP% after January 27 - 21.7% (7th in NHL)

Coincidence?

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

I just ran the numbers. Wideman's last game before being suspended was Jan 27, 2016. He did play three games after his suspension, but I haven't adjusted for that.

PP% up to January 27 - 13.5% (30th in NHL, 29th was a full 2% higher)
PP% after January 27 - 21.7% (7th in NHL)

Coincidence?

I think not!

[DJones]

I don't buy that our players aren't good enough to have an effective PP.

I was very happy with the PP the 2nd half of last year. This is all on the coaching staff in my opinion. The fact that they keep switching up the strategy just shows they are clueless.

[Dan403]

Originally Posted by MBates

"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."

- George Bernard Shaw

He who cannot Teach, Posts.

- Me

[Barnet Flame]

If we get a powerplay, we could try levelling it up and see how we do 4 on 4.

[polak]

Posted this in the GDT but:

Derek Wills @Fan960Wills
#Flames power play:
PP1:
Tkachuk-Backlund-Brouwer
Hamilton-Giordano
PP2:
Ferland-Monahan-Versteeg
Wideman-Brodie

That has to be the worst PP unit we've had since pre-'04?

A winger with 31 points and only 8 goals in 118 career games, our ex-1st line center who is currently at 0.31 ppg clip, a PTO and the worst defenseman in the NHL. I want to say poor Brodie but he hasn't been great either.

I don't really think we should be blaming Cameron at this point, that has to be the worst PP squad in the league, how can we blame them for being last? Even if you had Gaudreau and bumped Ferland out that still doesn't really help.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by polak

Posted this in the GDT but:

Derek Wills @Fan960Wills
#Flames power play:
PP1:
Tkachuk-Backlund-Brouwer
Hamilton-Giordano
PP2:
Ferland-Monahan-Versteeg
Wideman-Brodie

That has to be the worst PP unit we've had since pre-'04?

A winger with 31 points and only 8 goals in 118 career games, our ex-1st line center who is currently at 0.31 ppg clip, a PTO and the worst defenseman in the NHL. I want to say poor Brodie but he hasn't been great either.

I don't really think we should be blaming Cameron at this point, that has to be the worst PP squad in the league, how can we blame them for being last? Even if you had Gaudreau and bumped Ferland out that still doesn't really help.

http://flamesnation.ca/2016/3/9/reme...the-power-play

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ thanked for pointing out the Brent Sutter 5D on the PP.

A little annoyed at the click - baitiness of it.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by polak

I don't really think we should be blaming Cameron at this point, that has to be the worst PP squad in the league, how can we blame them for being last? Even if you had Gaudreau and bumped Ferland out that still doesn't really help.

They could try putting their leading scorer on the powerplay.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by polak

Posted this in the GDT but:

Derek Wills @Fan960Wills
#Flames power play:
PP1:
Tkachuk-Backlund-Brouwer
Hamilton-Giordano
PP2:
Ferland-Monahan-Versteeg
Wideman-Brodie

That has to be the worst PP unit we've had since pre-'04?

Ferland-Monahan-Versteeg
Wideman-Brodie <--- this unit scored

Just sayin...

[indes]

I could go for something out of the box:

D. Hamilton-Monahan-Brouwer
Giordano-Brodie

Bennett-Backlund-Tkachuk
Kevin-Wideman

Similar to playing big buff or burns up on the wing I think Hamilton would help with puck retrieval and a big one timer on the off side. Really I just hope they try something.

[polak]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Ferland-Monahan-Versteeg
Wideman-Brodie <--- this unit scored

Just sayin...

Holy cow one goal?

We're saved!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by polak

Posted this in the GDT but:

Derek Wills @Fan960Wills
#Flames power play:
PP1:
Tkachuk-Backlund-Brouwer
Hamilton-Giordano
PP2:
Ferland-Monahan-Versteeg
Wideman-Brodie

There's pretty much zero argument that Monahan and Brodie shouldn't be on at least a second unit, and there's nothing wrong with putting a banger who can shoot hard like Ferland on either. So your complaint is only that Versteeg (who has hands and OK speed) and Wideman (shot and passing is the best part of his game) are on.

Those units are missing Gaudreau and perhaps Bennett or Frolik. I suspect Bennett is not being used because he's struggling a bit and Frolik because he's used in every other situation and GG doesn't want to overplay him. But add some of those in and;

Gaudreau/Monahan/Tkatchuk
Gio/Hamilton

Bennett/Backlund/Brouwer (or Frolik or Ferland)
Wideman/Brodie

That ain't bad.

[devo22]

bump. While the PP is still atrocious, the PK has improved a lot over the last few games. Here are the special teams numbers from the last 10 games:

Nov 15 at MIN: 2/2 PK - 1/6 PP
Nov 16 vs ARI: 3/3 PK - 0/3 PP
Nov 18 vs CHI: 0/1 PK - 0/5 PP
Nov 20 at DET: 2/2 PK - 0/2 PP
Nov 21 at BUF: 3/6 PK - 0/2 PP

Nov 23 at CBJ: 4/4 PK - 1/3 PP
Nov 25 at BOS: 4/4 PK - 0/1 PP
Nov 27 at PHI: 5/6 PK - 1/1 PP
Nov 28 at NYI: 4/4 PK - 0/1 PP
Nov 30 vs TOR: 2/2 PK - 0/2 PP

PK in 2016/17 so far: .773% (75/97)
PK in the last 10 games: .853% (29/34)
PK in the last 5 games: .950% (19/20)

PP in 2016/17 so far: .101% (8/79)
PP in the last 10 games: .115% (3/26)
PP in the last 5 games: .250% (2/8)

so definitely a lot of improvement on the PK despite that ####fest 2nd period in Buffalo. And while still bad, the PP numbers have also got better lately. One of the problems is that the Flames have had difficulties drawing penalties lately (only 8 in the last 5). In terms of the PK, the Flames are still the team with most times shorthanded this season (97).