whats wrong with our team? - Page 5 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

flamesforcup · 10-23-2016, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

What's wrong with the Flames? nothing, they're a team in the middle of rebuilding who will have up years and down years and it may take a couple of different approaches before something clicks just like every other rebuilding team.

What's wrong with Flames fans? good lord everything! one hopefull year and all of a sudden they go into full Oiler mode, 'that's it, we're going to win the cup, Johnny's the new Fleury, St Louis etc etc'.

how long are we gonna be "in the middle" of a rebuild for? how long can we use that excuse for? it feels like we have been regressing. At some point we need to see some results especially being a cap team. This team has been bad for the last 2 decades and more (other than the 04 run). Its time we make drastic changes.

Coach · 10-23-2016, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

What's wrong with the Flames? nothing, they're a team in the middle of rebuilding who will have up years and down years and it may take a couple of different approaches before something clicks just like every other rebuilding team.

What's wrong with Flames fans? good lord everything! one hopefull year and all of a sudden they go into full Oiler mode, 'that's it, we're going to win the cup, Johnny's the new Fleury, St Louis etc etc'.

I don't think playoffs were an unreasonable expectation for this team with maturity of 3 young stars, capable support, top end defender, presumably good goaltending, etc...

Elliott has not looked good, at least 2 of the 3 young stars have looked downright average, Hamilton has been awful, Gio has been slightly OK, and the coaching system seems to have them in disarray.

Expecting good things from a team that's good on paper is not full Oiler. Expecting multiple Stanley Cups from a team that looks terrible on paper, and then actively cheering for no-goodness for another roll at the dice of an 18-year-old to save your team next season is full Oiler.

afc wimbledon · 10-23-2016, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

how long are we gonna be "in the middle" of a rebuild for? how long can we use that excuse for? it feels like we have been regressing. At some point we need to see some results especially being a cap team. This team has been bad for the last 2 decades and more (other than the 04 run). Its time we make drastic changes.

This is the 'drastic changes', and there's no guarentee that everything will work first time out.

robbie111 · 10-23-2016, 01:50 PM

Calgary looks very slow on the forecheck. They need to pressure opposing teams defensemen and they don't seem to have the speed to do that this year,

Calgary doesn't block shots anymore.

Defense is not engaged intelligently on the rush, they look confused and unsure and hesitate and that has cost them.

Powerplay does not have enough creativity and movement when they finally get possession in the zone.

Effort does not match when they played for Hartley, and it's a noticeable difference.

jayswin · 10-23-2016, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I've been talking about this all summer. I'm stunned that a middling talent team like this is up against the cap. This team isn't close to being elite and now they are going to struggle to maintain what they have for good players going forward which means the small handful of quality players they have need to have near career seasons every year for this team to be competitive as there's no money available to bring in any more help via free agency.

If you take off Wideman, Stajan and Engelland at the end of this season that's over $10mil. So I'm not really surprised they're not playing like a cap team while being a cap team.

Ashasx · 10-23-2016, 01:52 PM

unfortunately we have 2 seasons left of stajan

jayswin · 10-23-2016, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

how long are we gonna be "in the middle" of a rebuild for? how long can we use that excuse for? it feels like we have been regressing. At some point we need to see some results especially being a cap team. This team has been bad for the last 2 decades and more (other than the 04 run). Its time we make drastic changes.

Most of the last two decades is irrelevant to the current players and management. Talking about Calgary being "bad" in 2007 is about as comparable as saying Edmonton was bad in 2007.

Sylvanfan · 10-23-2016, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayswin

If you take off Wideman, Stajan and Engelland at the end of this season that's over $10mil. So I'm not really surprised they're not playing like a cap team while being a cap team.

How do you get rid of Stajan this offseason unless you buy him out. Plus...hes actually been less bad than most of his team mates. As much as we cry about Stajan, Smid, England etc....the top players not playing very well is a much bigger problem. Having more money to overspend on supplemental depth isnt going to advance this team past mediocre.

N-E-B · 10-23-2016, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashasx

unfortunately we have 2 seasons left of stajan

I'm guessing he's bought out after this year. Being a nice guy only gets you so far in the NHL.

frodo_t_baggins · 10-23-2016, 02:06 PM

My thoughts. Say what you will about Hartley, but one thing was made abundantly clear while he was coach and that is this team is most effective scoring on the rush. We have several good skaters who can carry the puck (our big 3 d, Johnny, Backlund etc) who could create a chance and our slower skaters (Monahan, Bouma etc) could crash the net and pick up any garbage. Not an advanced-stat friendly way of playing offence but was effective with how the flames are built.

Now the defensive system/special teams were trash under Hartley which Treliving was right to try and improve. Now here's what is frustrating. GG has come in and rather than study what was effective for the team in the past and to build off of it, he has scrapped everything to try and build this new system. Rather than rushing the puck up with speed and numbers, the offence is trying slow zone entries/dump and chase. This team does not have the size, strength or speed to be successful and it is no surprise at all this isn't working (except for the players who struggled in Hartley's system like Stajan and Ferland). On top of that, I'm not sure what the hell they are trying to do in the defensive zone.

BT was right that this team needed a new coach to take the next step. However, he should have been looking for someone to build off this team's previous successes and fix the fundamental problems with the team. Instead, he found someone who thinks it best to start from scratch and play a new way to improve the advanced stats. People can blame the top players for not playing like top players, but it has to be tough on them being told to do something different than what has become instinctual for them and has lead to success in the past. I'm not surprised that this has been the start we have had and I don't see any improvement on the horizon which makes me sad.

Last thing. After crappy performances, Hartley would always mention how it wasn't fair to the fans, city and team mates. He always pushed to try and create more emotion in the team. Gulutzan does not bring any of that (has he ever called a time out?), this team has played like crap every game and every post game he only talks about the system. As such I'm not surprised there has been so little emotion from the players besides frustration.

jayswin · 10-23-2016, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

How do you get rid of Stajan this offseason unless you buy him out. Plus...hes actually been less bad than most of his team mates. As much as we cry about Stajan, Smid, England etc....the top players not playing very well is a much bigger problem. Having more money to overspend on supplemental depth isnt going to advance this team past mediocre.

Whoops, thought he was off this year.

flames_fan13 · 10-23-2016, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashasx

unfortunately we have 2 seasons left of stajan

I know people get on him because of his contract but he's pretty consistent this season. Take out the expectation people have of him because of his salary and he's the type of player that people would like in his position. A player who can kill penalties, provides veteran leadership and gives it 100% effort when he's on the ice. Stajan is the least of the problems the team has had.

I think when it comes to expectations it's better to focus on what their role with the team is and so far Stajan has done well for his role. It's the top forwards and defensemen that have failed to meet even their minimum expectations.

Ashasx · 10-23-2016, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flames_fan13

I know people get on him because of his contract but he's pretty consistent this season. Take out the expectation people have of him because of his salary and he's the type of player that people would like in his position. A player who can kill penalties, provides veteran leadership and gives it 100% effort when he's on the ice. Stajan is the least of the problems the team has had.

I think when it comes to expectations it's better to focus on what their role with the team is and so far Stajan has done well for his role. It's the top forwards and defensemen that have failed to meet even their minimum expectations.

I don't disagree at all, but there is no way Stajan is worth his contract over these next 2 seasons.

AcGold · 10-23-2016, 09:24 PM

Stajan is fine. He's adequate to slightly below adequate in his assigned role. Brodie, Gio, Monahan, Johhny, Dougie are the major points of concern. Especially Brodie.

The fact that one of the most dynamic players in the entire league now struggles to make simple exit passes raised alarm bells for me, something is seriously ####ed up. Imagine the reaction in SJ if Burns forgot how to shoot, you'd kind of wonder wtf happened.

CliffFletcher · 10-23-2016, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I've been talking about this all summer. I'm stunned that a middling talent team like this is up against the cap. This team isn't close to being elite and now they are going to struggle to maintain what they have for good players going forward which means the small handful of quality players they have need to have near career seasons every year for this team to be competitive as there's no money available to bring in any more help via free agency.

When the rebuild began, there was every reason to believe it was going to be a 6-8 year rebuild. Sutter left the organization with pretty much zero talent in the 22-28 year old range. The assumption among was management was that the team would have to draft a new core from scratch.

Of course, we had the trainwreck up in Edmonton to show what happens when you don't surround your young talent with decent veterans. But the only way to get those veterans was as UFAs, which you always have to overpay for. So the team loaded up on middling, overpaid veterans to insulate the very young, drafted talent as it developed.

But the rebuild was accelerated by a couple developments: the emergence of Brodie as a top pairing defenceman, and of Gaudreau as a elite scorer. Management three years ago did not expect that it would paying Gaudreau and Monahan anything close to what they're earning today. Or that a Hamilton would fall into their lap.

Hot_Flatus · 10-23-2016, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flames_fan13

I know people get on him because of his contract but he's pretty consistent this season. Take out the expectation people have of him because of his salary and he's the type of player that people would like in his position. A player who can kill penalties, provides veteran leadership and gives it 100% effort when he's on the ice. Stajan is the least of the problems the team has had.

I think when it comes to expectations it's better to focus on what their role with the team is and so far Stajan has done well for his role. It's the top forwards and defensemen that have failed to meet even their minimum expectations.

Meh. Just about every decent NHL player can kill penalties. While he's been killing penalties, amongst others, Calgary has had one of the worst PK units in the league the last few years. Don't give him props for that.

djsFlames · 10-23-2016, 11:23 PM

They're doing everything too slow. The speed at which they are making and executing decisions and plays needs to pick up. Head up passes, less of those blind saucers. The PP needs skating and movement, which it does not have presently (a lot of standing still and passing back and forth expecting lanes to open up when they definitely will not), and I think that's the key, aside from zone entries, to getting them some goals on the PP. Not enough net front presence in general as well.

Husky · 10-24-2016, 07:08 AM

Top players need to be better. Both on pp and EV strength.

Gaudrea monohan giordano brodie

They up their game to their pay level. Flames win.

taco.vidal · 10-24-2016, 07:09 AM

Gully is a dud of a head coach.

madmike · 10-24-2016, 07:51 AM

New coach and new system is a big part of it.

But in all honesty. Monahan and Brodie have played like absolute garbage so far this season. I don't know what their issues are, but they're a big part of why the team is where it's at.

I know people like to get on Hamilton and he's made his share of mistakes, but he's looked like a Norris winner compared to Brodie so far.