Matthew Tkachuk, Does he make the team.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by greentree

Seeing guys do that thing with their mouth guards makes my skin crawl...there's something gross and disturbingly infantile about it.

If you find that disturbing I think you have some very severe personal issues. It's a habit that tons of hockey players of all ages have.

[djsFlames]

You can bet your last strip of bacon he does.

Book it.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

You can bet your last strip of bacon he does.

Book it.

Do you think he is more prepared and/or the team is easier to break in when Monahan broke in?

You do realize that there are very few 18 year olds who have been as good as Monahan? Monahan was a great rookie by Flames standards... but his 22 goals 34 pts and -20 was good enough for 8 place in the Calder voting.

The Flames could work with Monahan's -20 because they were basically tanking for the whole season. If his getting over-matched 5-on-5 was costing the Flames some important games in a playoff race chance are he would not have played the whole season.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Do you think he is more prepared and/or the team is easier to break in when Monahan broke in?

I think the team is significantly better and deeper, but this actually works well in Tkachuk's favour, since he both plays an easier position than Monahan, and he will benefit from great support from veterans Brouwer and Bennett who both look terrific together.

You do realize that there are very few 18 year olds who have been as good as Monahan? Monahan was a great rookie by Flames standards... but his 22 goals 34 pts and -20 was good enough for 8 place in the Calder voting.

I personally don't care about where Tkachuk might place in Calder voting, but I also don't think it is a stretch to imagine that he can produce in the range of 30–40 points while playing on a much higher scoring team and with better line mates than Monahan, who also had to contend with playing at centre.

The Flames could work with Monahan's -20 because they were basically tanking for the whole season. If his getting over-matched 5-on-5 was costing the Flames some important games in a playoff race chance are he would not have played the whole season.

You should know better by now that plus/minus is a fairly meaningless statistic.

[Flash Walken]

The goaltending is better but I think the team is worse.

I am cautiously optimistic about this seasons but I still think the team is lacking forward and defensive depth. None of the flames defensive prospects seem to be really pushing for a spot, so it wouldn't surprise me if the Flames end up signing Russell and keeping Grossman as the #7.

Upfront I like the Brouwer addition and I think tkachuk makes the team but I don't think it's a super positive sign that an 18 year old kid will be a prominent part of the top 6. Would love to eat crow on that but without career best seasons from Giordano, Brodie and Hamilton again I think this team may struggle to score.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The goaltending is better but I think the team is worse.

I am cautiously optimistic about this seasons but I still think the team is lacking forward and defensive depth. None of the flames defensive prospects seem to be really pushing for a spot, so it wouldn't surprise me if the Flames end up signing Russell and keeping Grossman as the #7.

Upfront I like the Brouwer addition and I think tkachuk makes the team but I don't think it's a super positive sign that an 18 year old kid will be a prominent part of the top 6. Would love to eat crow on that but without career best seasons from Giordano, Brodie and Hamilton again I think this team may struggle to score.

Again worth pointing out. They were 10th in league scoring last season. Not even in the bottom half of the league.

Do you think they'll drop 10-20 places in that regard with the changes from last season to this season essentially being Colborne out and Brouwer in? This team is different in terms of production from others in that a lot of offence comes from the blue line. The top 3 could account for 35-40 goals alone. We have more goals from defensemen than other teams and that's why people continue to question the scoring ability when looking at the team on paper. Because the attention focuses on the top six as its ability to score.

They're hardly worse offensively than last season, and are vastly improved in net, and they weren't slouches when it came to scoring goals to begin with. And none of that is accounting for how much the young players could grow and progress. So while from afar there appears to be reason for concern, I don't think it'll be much of an issue when the real games get going.

[N-E-B]

I think he makes the team this year. He hasn't looked out of place so far and I think the concern about his skating is overblown.

[greentree]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

If you find that disturbing I think you have some very severe personal issues. It's a habit that tons of hockey players of all ages have.

lol severe personal issues oh my

[Gaudreauvertime]

One concern I have is that while he's a physically big guy for his age, he's still a kid. He doesn't have that adult strength yet, regardless of height and weight, so I don't think he's ready to start playing that big PF game.

I think one more year to get some more man strength will do wonders for his strength and explosiveness. By the time he's 22 he's going to be a monster. But let him go back to junior and learn how to be the guy

[MrMastodonFarm]

Is Mitch Marner sticking with the Leafs? He, William Nylander and Auston Matthews all should make the opening night roster, but maybe Marner goes back if Toronto doesn't want to run with all those high profile rookies in the same season?

Tkachuk back to London all by his lonesome would be a fantastic challenge.

[greentree]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

One concern I have is that while he's a physically big guy for his age, he's still a kid. He doesn't have that adult strength yet, regardless of height and weight, so I don't think he's ready to start playing that big PF game.

I think one more year to get some more man strength will do wonders for his strength and explosiveness. By the time he's 22 he's going to be a monster. But let him go back to junior and learn how to be the guy

Agree 100%.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

If anybody is lacking man strength it's Mitch Marner, not Tkachuk. Lots of top 5-6 NHL draft picks make the NHL right away despite lacking man strength so that's not a strong argument for sending Tkachuk back. RNH cracked the NHL weighing far less than Tkachuk and playing a harder position.

Tkachuk leading London? Sure it'd be a challenge and a good learning experience. But he'd still learn far more playing with and against the best players in the world in the best league in the world. If he isn't looking out of place the NHL is probably the best place for him to develop since he can't go to the minors.

The talk of him being better suited for junior reminds of all the same talk about Monahan. Some people like to be overcautious on that front it would seem.

[greentree]

Pretty sure it was Conroy who said before the draft that Tkachuk wasn't NHL-ready, needed another year in the O.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by greentree

Pretty sure it was Conroy who said before the draft that Tkachuk wasn't NHL-ready, needed another year in the O.

And lots of scouts at the Memorial Cup said Tkachuk was NHL ready. Conroy may be tempering expectations or may be guilty of being overcautious himself.

[Flash Walken]

Tkachuk looks as NHL ready as Monahan did to start his rookie season in my mind.

[greentree]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

And lots of scouts at the Memorial Cup said Tkachuk was NHL ready. Conroy may be tempering expectations or may be guilty of being overcautious himself.

Or he may be right. There's that.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

If anybody is lacking man strength it's Mitch Marner, not Tkachuk. Lots of top 5-6 NHL draft picks make the NHL right away despite lacking man strength so that's not a strong argument for sending Tkachuk back. RNH cracked the NHL weighing far less than Tkachuk and playing a harder position.

Tkachuk leading London? Sure it'd be a challenge and a good learning experience. But he'd still learn far more playing with and against the best players in the world in the best league in the world. If he isn't looking out of place the NHL is probably the best place for him to develop since he can't go to the minors.

The talk of him being better suited for junior reminds of all the same talk about Monahan. Some people like to be overcautious on that front it would seem.

Mitch Marner doesn't have to have man strength because his play style does not require it (and because he's a great skater).

Tkachuk showed to have a hard time keeping up pressure on the forecheck, just a step too slow to force a mistake from the defenseman. I don't even think it's about being cautious, it's more about giving him the chance to check the box of "best player on my junior team" which Monahan had by 18.

That's an important step for the psychology of a young player. Learning how to be the guy who your team depends on to make a difference every night. Tkachuk went from Auston Matthews to Marner / Dvorak, so he's been the #2/#3 guy over the past 2 years.

It's great that he can play with elite players, but we want him to develop into more than a complimentary player, right? He may never need to be more than that, but you want him to have the confidence and experience to know he can be the guy if called upon.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Tkachuk went from Auston Matthews to Marner/Dvorak to Gaudreau/Monahan/Bennett. Maybe he'll never be the best player on his team, maybe he'll always be the secondary guy on a winning team.

It's great Monahan checked the box of best player on his team at 18, but his team was atrocious. I'm sure he would have preferred a good supporting cast and a playoff team then some ultimately meaningless development box.

Complimentary player can be controversial term for fans but there is a world of difference between Troy Brouwer and Michael Frolik then the pedigree Matthew Tkachuk brings.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Depends what you mean by complimentary. Seems like some people see that as a knock or a negative. IMO Tkachuk will always be an elite complimentary player because he's extremely smart, a good playmaker, does the dirty work on his line by winning board battles and driving the net, He compliments anybody he plays with. That's a good thing, not a bad thing. I don't think sending him back to junior this year does anything to change whether or not he'll be an elite complimentary player.

Being a complimentary player is a compliment, not a knock. Powerforwards are complimentary players by definition IMO. Playmakers are complimentary players by definition. They compliment their line mates. Tkachuk is both a powerforward and playmaker and thus he's an elite complimentary player.

Gaudreau and Monahan do not need a puck hog line driving player. They need a player who compliments their strengths and weaknesses. Tkachuk is that style of player. Going back to junior does not change the style of player he will be IMO

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

He is that big. You can debate his NHL readiness all you want, but several people in this thread have suggested he's not big enough and that just isn't the case.

I also see no reason why the Flames site would embellish. Certainly not by 15 pounds. That's a strange suggestion.

He very much looks to be 200lbs on the ice, and that's backed up by data from the draft.







He might have several areas to improve upon, but he certainly has size in his favour.

He has a big frame, but from what was evident rink side is that it's not very full at this point. And it shouldn't be, he's only 18. I trust the coaching staff's decision in what the next steps are for his development, and the one thing that was evident to me all through camp was that he has to get bigger to play the game he wants to play effectively.