theScore's rankings of all 31 NHL franchises: Leafs 1st, Flames 22nd

[thefoss1957]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

How the hell does one rank ownership, and why does it even matter?

Just ask a Blackhawk fan that suffered through the Dollar Bill Dark Ages, clearly and ironically, my team's turnaround began with his demise, for only then could the new owner change the Byzantine politics of the front office, and reverse the absolute contempt for fans that was the order of the day, from the top, down, that was demonstrated when William Wadsworth Wirtz was in charge.

That is how one can rank ownership..."Is ownership committed to WINNING, or just in making a buck, and to hell with the on-ice product"

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

What evidence is there that Joel Armia has potential to be a good middle six player - given his age, development and production at the NHL level?

What sort of question is that?

Are you suggesting that half a season as a 22 year old is indication of him NOT having middle 6 potential.

he is on the same track as Backlund.... and ahead of Brouwer.

Armia is coming off his 22 year season with 43 games 4 goals 10 pts +2 Armia is 6-3 210 and plays a big game.

Backlund's 22 year old season 41 games 4 goals 12 pts -12 as a 22 year old Backlund got knocked off the puck by his own shadow. Thank goodness some hockey people saw that he had great middle 6 potentail and stuck with him.

Brouwer had 2 NHL games his 22 year old season. as a 23 year old he had 26 pts in 69 games as an NHL rookie.

If somehow the Flames would be able to pick up Armia from the Jets where would he slot in on the Flames RW depth? He is coming off a nominally better season than Chaisson that some people think gets a look at the spot on the Monahan/gaudreau line.



Lot of comments criticizing the blatant homerism of the Leafs/Oilers but then diminishing the prospects of other teams.... that would be instantly better on the Flames.

I want the Flames to be successful by being better than really good Oiler, Canucks and Jets teams..... not because they are awful and the Flames are slightly less awful.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

^
Sure, the Jets did well to move Kane for useful pieces, but I would object to the claim that they "destroyed the Sabres" in that trade.

...and in the end, the Jets are still terrible.

The Jets have a very mediocre head coach, below average goaltending and a GM operating on an internal budget. It's tough to ice a winning team with that kind of combination but there is a lot to like about some of the talent on the team and in the organization. I feel one day they could become a solid regular season team that could win a round in the playoffs or even two but given their internal budget their window of opportunity will be small because they will not be able to retain all their solid young talent as they gave Sheifele that big deal and Trouba soon then you will have Ehlers, Laine, etc. They are going to have to be a team that operates at the cap ceiling if they try to keep everyone and even that may not be enough one day.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

What sort of question is that?

Are you suggesting that half a season as a 22 year old is indication of him NOT having middle 6 potential.

And yet, with several core players in that age range, you yourself worry that the Flames are as good as they'll get for the next few years.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by the2bears

And yet, with several core players in that age range, you yourself worry that the Flames are as good as they'll get for the next few years.

The Flames 22 year olds are counted on to be top-3 or 4.

Who do the Flames have that are 22 and have middle 6 potential?

They just added Chaisson and Vey and Pribyl because they didn't have an Armia waiting to make the jump.

Poirier, Shinkaruk, Klimchuck, Jankowski? are they the under 22 year olds that being added to the mix will push this version of the Flames from also-rans to contenders?


The cap space allocated for 2019-20 (counting 14M for Gaudreau/Monahan) is
40M for 7 players. That leaves around 40M for 15 players after all the bad contracts are a bad memory.

The 15 players including Bennett, Tkachuk, Backlund and 2 goalies.

The Flames will be contenders this year....or pretenders for another long while. What they have in the pipeline is relatively insignificant to what they have in place.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The Flames 22 year olds are counted on to be top-3 or 4.

Who do the Flames have that are 22 and have middle 6 potential?

They just added Chaisson and Vey and Pribyl because they didn't have an Armia waiting to make the jump.

Poirier, Shinkaruk, Klimchuck, Jankowski? are they the under 22 year olds that being added to the mix will push this version of the Flames from also-rans to contenders?


The cap space allocated for 2019-20 (counting 14M for Gaudreau/Monahan) is
40M for 7 players. That leaves around 40M for 15 players after all the bad contracts are a bad memory.

The 15 players including Bennett, Tkachuk, Backlund and 2 goalies.

The Flames will be contenders this year....or pretenders for another long while. What they have in the pipeline is relatively insignificant to what they have in place.

So if a team is relying on young players to be top players than those players won't get better, but if a team is relying on a player to be a middle six guy than they will get better?

And then you go on to say that Calgary will be an also ran for years because those young stars won't get better and.......money and stuff?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

How the hell does one rank ownership, and why does it even matter?

Harold Ballard.

That is all.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by jayswin

So if a team is relying on young players to be top players than those players won't get better, but if a team is relying on a player to be a middle six guy than they will get better?

And then you go on to say that Calgary will be an also ran for years because those young stars won't get better and.......money and stuff?

If you are arguing that the Flames need another year or two to become contenders what do you see happening for 2017-18 or 2018-19 that will be better than 2016-17?

I will concede that Tkachuk will be better than Chaisson/Pribyl/Ferland/Bouma/Shinkaruk in the top-9

After that will Wotherspoon/Anderssen/Kylington be better than Wideman /Engelland? I understand they will be cheaper by surely you don't really think that they won't be ready for 2015-16 but will 2 of them be 15+ minute NHL d-men in 2016-17? It will be a long reach to find a replacement at #4 and 5 on the trade market or as UFA who will fit in the Flames cap structure.

Will Jankowski be better than Stajan?

Will Gillies and ? be better than Elliott and Johnson?

Will Porier and Shinkaruk be better than Chaisson/Vey? ... by a significant amount?

Or is it all based on Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett and Hamilton really needing an extra year to come into their own? Why next year and not this year?

All I can see on the Flames being another year away is that Tkachuk is the critical piece that the Flames need or that Gillies will be that much better than Elliott/Johnson.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

If you are arguing that the Flames need another year or two to become contenders what do you see happening for 2017-18 or 2018-19 that will be better than 2016-17?

I will concede that Tkachuk will be better than Chaisson/Pribyl/Ferland/Bouma/Shinkaruk in the top-9

After that will Wotherspoon/Anderssen/Kylington be better than Wideman /Engelland? I understand they will be cheaper by surely you don't really think that they won't be ready for 2015-16 but will 2 of them be 15+ minute NHL d-men in 2016-17? It will be a long reach to find a replacement at #4 and 5 on the trade market or as UFA who will fit in the Flames cap structure.

Will Jankowski be better than Stajan?

Will Gillies and ? be better than Elliott and Johnson?

Will Porier and Shinkaruk be better than Chaisson/Vey? ... by a significant amount?

Or is it all based on Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett and Hamilton really needing an extra year to come into their own? Why next year and not this year?

All I can see on the Flames being another year away is that Tkachuk is the critical piece that the Flames need or that Gillies will be that much better than Elliott/Johnson.

I think the reason people are optimistic about the flames being contenders comes from a few places. first and foremost is the young core, typically players come into their own and peak offensively at around 24-28, they also usually develop a better 200 ft game. Our entire core is below the age of 23, excluding Brodie. So that gives the Flames a big upside over the next 7 or so years.
Secondly, we have decent talent in the pipeline and what looks to be a pretty good scouting team, so it isn't unlikely to expect a few surprise success stories in our prospect pool.
Finally, the Flames do appear to have structured themselves similarly to teams that have had a lot of success. We're starting to look like a pretty balanced team, we have an above average defense (hard to argue with guys like Gio, Brodie, Hamilton and pretty good prospects coming up), our goaltending situation looks to be taken care of for the short term, with some promising prospects to hopefully ensure that position remains solid. Our forwards are looking pretty promising as well, really good depth down the middle with our major weakness being at the RW.
You don't need an all-star team to be contenders, a talented core of a few elite players, above average goaltending and depth surrounding that is basically what it takes, that and some luck in the playoffs.