Rank the Canadian NHL teams for 2016-17

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Ok. I disagree.

You have to admit it's a bit odd to say that wins and losses don't matter as a goaltender, and then immediately go on to use "he's a winner at every level" as evidence of his superior ability.

Kind of semantics though. He's a great goaltending prospect I think we can all agree. He'll get his shot.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by heep223

You have to admit it's a bit odd to say that wins and losses don't matter as a goaltender, and then immediately go on to use "he's a winner at every level" as evidence of his superior ability.

Kind of semantics though. He's a great goaltending prospect I think we can all agree. He'll get his shot.

Well... His winning % was significantly better than Pavelec, as was his save %. Don't hold the winner thing over me too much. His save % is the real story of his young career in college and the AHL. The Moose sucked and he still had a very good save %.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Ok. I disagree.

A sound rebuttal.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

A sound rebuttal.

Would you prefer that we keep repeating ourselves over and over? You don't put a lot of stock in his limited sample size, and I do. Shall we argue over which shade of blue is better next?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Would you prefer that we keep repeating ourselves over and over? You don't put a lot of stock in his limited sample size, and I do. Shall we argue over which shade of blue is better next?

Cobalt dammit!!! End of discussion.

[ricardodw]

Just looking at the western teams and what they have done in the off season to their pathetic teams that finished off 2015-16

Flames

add
Brouwer - makes any line he plays on better than what the same line was last year!
Elliott - very much better than what the Flames had last year . In 2014-15 was identical statswise to Hiller. A bit worried that all St. L. could get for him was a 2nd round pick and they could have kept him if they wanted him.
Johnson - played well on a non-playoff team - he might have a better temperament to succeed on the Flames than the hyper-competitive intense Elliott
Chaisson - players you need to fill in the roster.... replaces Jones
Vey - lack of depth in the Flames system ...
Hathaway - needed when Bouma is hurt and provides ability to bench Ferland
Bouma - lot of whining about his 2m contact but was missed last year and was brought back at somewhat less than 100% in the playoffs.
Jokipakka - what we wanted Wotherspoon to develop into.
Wideman - missed 31 games ... played far better than expected when Gio was hurt in 2014-15.

out

Russell - was able to play well with Hamilton... Gio and Brodie's own game fell off when paired with Hamilton
Hudler - was the #1 RW until he was traded
Colborne - leaves a hole in the top 6.
Jones - NHL quality middle 6 that provided some heft... way overpaid
Jooris - not big enough or gritty enough for his bottom 6 role.
Hiller, Ramo, Ortio -- awful year. Chicken or egg... the team started off poorly and the goalies never got their mojo back.

--------------

Canucks

in
Eriksson
Elder
Gudbrandson
Brandon Sutter
Gaunce
Larsen
Granlund

out

Vrbata
Vey
Hamhuis
Bartkowski
McCann
Weber

Just after the all star break when Elder went down the Canucks were 2 pts out of the playoffs..... they fell apart like I thought the Flames would have when Gio got hurt 2 years ago.

adding Elder and Gundbrandson and Eriksson and Sutter to the team that finished last year is significant. That is their top 2 d and 2 forwards into their top 6. Will the Sedins have a dead cat bounce as their careers wind down? The moves they made means they think they are a playoff team until the Sedins pack it in.

------------

Oilers

in

Lucic
McDavid
Puljujarvi
Maroon
Larrson
Klefbom

out

Hall
Purcell
Korpikoski
Shultz

Yikes.... of the 6 players the Oilers are adding there is not one (not taking into account contracts) that I wouldn't want on the Flames....

The only thing keeping the Oilers out of the playoffs is the Lowe/Mctavish curse.

----------------
Jets

in

Laine
Connor
Mattias
Dano
Strait
Hellebuyck

out
Ladd
Halischuk

Connor might not make the Jets out of training camp. Morrissey might. If Laine moves across at the level he was at the World Championships the Jets make the playoffs.

The Lottery win for the Jets is a game changer in the standings... Tkachuk for Laine and the Flames would be a lock for the playoffs.

---

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The Lottery win for the Jets is a game changer in the standings... Tkachuk for Laine and the Flames would be a lock for the playoffs.

Good post, but not sure about this bit.

What really is the do or die attribute for the Flames is the goaltending. We don't want to turn into the 2000s Flyers and their then-incorrigibly poor goaltending system. If Elliott and Johnson both repeat last years' performances, I think we're in.

[White Out 403]

I think the Flames improved with Elliot more than the Jets improved with both Laine and Connor. Goaltending was such a tire fire in Calgary.

I still think Winnipeg is a more skilled team, however. And if Hellebuyck is even average for the Jets they should finish higher.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Good post, but not sure about this bit.

What really is the do or die attribute for the Flames is the goaltending. We don't want to turn into the 2000s Flyers and their then-incorrigibly poor goaltending system. If Elliott and Johnson both repeat last years' performances, I think we're in.

How much of an impact on team standing did Monahan have in his first season. McDavid even? Fairly little. If we're keeping the discussion within next season then neither Laine nor Tkachuk are going to push either team over the top. Few rookies in recent history are good enough that quickly to be able to have that kind of impact. Long term is another conversation. But yeah.

Goaltending was by far the most hindering issue on Calgary's end given that they were the 10th best offensive team last season. Which also flies in the face of Ressurection's statement that the Jets, who were 21st, are more skilled. If we're talking about skilled as being the ability to put up offense. You could say they have more 'skill' players and that'd probably be true. But I think that the Flames' top guys are bigger game breakers than the Jets' top guys. We definitely have more dead weight in our team depth, though. The Jets have some nice depth and prospects that can step in. Thank goodness some of those no good contracts will be coming off.

With the league's SV% leader last season between the pipes and Gaudreau and Monahan developing further, I just fail to see how Calgary isn't the most playoff ready in western Canada this season going in (who knows how injuries can play out though..).

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

How much of an impact on team standing did Monahan have in his first season. McDavid even? Fairly little. If we're keeping the discussion within next season then neither Laine nor Tkachuk are going to push either team over the top. Few rookies in recent history are good enough that quickly to be able to have that kind of impact. Long term is another conversation. But yeah.

Goaltending was by far the most hindering issue on Calgary's end given that they were the 10th best offensive team last season. Which also flies in the face of Ressurection's statement that the Jets, who were 21st, are more skilled. If we're talking about skilled as being the ability to put up offense. You could say they have more 'skill' players and that'd probably be true. But I think that the Flames' top guys are bigger game breakers than the Jets' top guys. We definitely have more dead weight in our team depth, though. The Jets have some nice depth and prospects that can step in. Thank goodness some of those no good contracts will be coming off.

With the league's SV% leader last season between the pipes and Gaudreau and Monahan developing further, I just fail to see how Calgary isn't the most playoff ready in western Canada this season going in (who knows how injuries can play out though..).

looking at Goalies records 2014-15
Hiller 26-19-4 2.36 GA .918 sv %
Elliott 26-14-3 2.26 GA .917 sv%

Hiller imploded playing behind Hartley's run and gun small skilled game

I am pretty sure that Elliott would not have had a league leading sv% playing for last years Flame's He was playing for 3rd overall Blues... who the Flames outscored by 7 goals.

Trevling and Burke figured that Hartley's system was not viable and fired him. The Flames are in a big reset mode.

Now the big question is if the Flames have the personnel to play a more standard system where the defensemen all don't put up 40+ pts.

[WilderPegasus]

Great job with the predictions in this thread!

No one even came close to getting it correct. I mean I could understand picking Edmonton dead last because, well, they've been doing it for like a decade. But so many terrible predictions here. It's like you all work for Rogers.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

Great job with the predictions in this thread!

No one even came close to getting it correct. I mean I could understand picking Edmonton dead last because, well, they've been doing it for like a decade. But so many terrible predictions here. It's like you all work for Rogers.

If you had made an accurate prediction in here somewhere, you'd have room to run your mouth, but you didn't so maybe you should shut your yap.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

Great job with the predictions in this thread!

No one even came close to getting it correct. I mean I could understand picking Edmonton dead last because, well, they've been doing it for like a decade. But so many terrible predictions here. It's like you all work for Rogers.

What were your predictions?

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by jayswin

What were your predictions?

They were correct obviously.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Winnipeg sure disappointed a lot of people

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Just a note off the top of this post; ALL of the Canadian teams were essentially in the bottom 10 in the league (Ottawa at 19th was highest). Nobody should expect any of these teams to be any higher than 11th this year, and even that is a bit of a stretch. There have been improvements to most of these teams, but it probably won't be enough to get any more than 2 of these teams in the playoffs.

Montreal-4th in the Atlantic, 8th in the East, 15th overall. 95 points.
Pros: A healthy Carey Price could easily give any team an extra 5-6 wins, and that's all the Habs would need to be in the playoffs a year ago. They may have fixed a mediocre offense by adding Radulov, and having Weber's shot on the PP (although the latter is maybe a lateral move from Subban).
Cons: There's not a lot of depth on this team. Get past the first two lines and it's a mixed bag of mediocre to below average players. That will be trouble if there are injuries to any of their top players. They are also pretty close to the cap, meaning there are few opportunities to fix the team through trades.

Calgary-4th in the division, 8th in the West, 16th overall. 95 points.
Pros: Offense was not a problem for the Flames last year, and this year should be no different. A new coach with an effective breakout strategy should limit defensive zone time and put the puck more often in the offensive zone. A power play that was poor for most of the year should be improved with a new strategy and new personnel. The absolute worst defensive team added two goalies of high calibre and accomplishment last year.
Cons: This is still a young team that has some learning to do. They were the worst team defensively last year because they were not good at playing defense AND they had awful goaltending. One of those things was fixed, but it remains to be seen if this team can play a stronger game in their own end. Also, new and unproven coaches could have a tough time teaching new and better habits.

Winnipeg-5th in Central, 9th in the West, 18th overall. 90 points.
Pros: A team that struggled to score last year should have no problem doing so this year. Adding Connor, Laine, and possibly Dano and Petan to a lineup that already has Scheifele, Ehlers, Wheeler, Little, Stafford etc. should fix that. The goaltending will be massively improved if Hellebuyck is given the net.
Cons: Pavelec might still be the starter this year, and the d-core doesn't play defense all that effectively. The Jets still take a lot of penalties, and there's no guarantee their PK will be any better than the 25th ranked one last year.

Ottawa-7th in Atlantic, 13th in the East, 23rd overall. 83 points.
Pros: They still have a superstar in Karlsson and some good complimentary/secondary scoring players.
Cons: They don't have a star forward to rely on for consistent offense. Their defense is so woefully thin that Phaneuf looks like a great 2nd pairing d-man for them. Patrick Sieloff might have a legitimate chance to make this team. If Andersson doesn't play out of his mind again, that team is bottom of the barrel.

Edmonton-5th in the Pacific, 11th in the West, 24th overall. 82 points.
Pros: Best thing they ever did was move Taylor Hall. The inmates are no longer running the asylum. A more well-rounded team with a healthy McDavid will move up in the standings, but not drastically so.
Cons: This team still doesn't have a top pairing defenseman, although they have 3 2nd pairing guys at least. However, there's still not enough defensive depth and not enough leadership to get everyone playing a consistently good brand of hockey.

Vancouver-6th in Pacific, 13th in the West, 28th overall. 72 points.
Pros: When you have the Sedins, you still have a legitimate top line. Miller is still a solid goaltender, and Markstrom is slowly taking over the net. Edler and Tanev are good, but not stars.
Cons: There's almost no legitimate secondary attack whatsoever. This team is going to struggle mightily to score goals this year outside of the Sedin line. The defense after the top two is mediocre at best. No relief coming soon with the Canucks right near the cap. Long year for Vancouver as they continue their descent.

Toronto-8th in the Atlantic, 16th in the East, 29th overall. 71 points.
Pros: They finally have some potential top line talent to work with (Matthews, Nylander, Marner), and with established secondary scorers they should finally be able to score a little. There's enough quality veterans on the team to aid the transition for the young talent in the pipe. Andersen should give them better goaltending than last year.
Cons: They still don't have anything close to a real top pairing defenseman, and there's not much coming down the pipe for prospects. The other established defensemen are old and slow, and it will be a long year for Andersen in net.


Just FYI-Arizona Coyotes: Dead f'ing last in the NHL.

Ok, so I didn't nail the Eastern teams because I don't watch them nearly as much as the Western teams, but I'm pretty ####ing proud of my predictions for the Western Canadian teams. Nobody thought Edmonton was going to have a 100+ point season, so you'll have to forgive me that one.

[stang]

Oh man lol.... glad I didn't predict anything