Capital Punishment

[blender]

This debate should be moot.
Like a long list of societal progressions (equal rights for women or people of colour, freedom of speech, religion, sexuality, etc.) the abolishment of capital punishment is something that indicates progress. You don't bring it back unless you are moving backwards. Look at the list of countries that still have the death penalty and ask yourself if you want to be in that group?

Pretty clear cut IMO.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by T@T

No, not really. Too many people were/are put to death for just being in the wrong place, being poor or in a lot of cases being the wrong color/race. I don't want anyone to die for these reasons.

But I'll gladly pull the switch myself for the true monsters.

Then your vote should've been yes.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by T@T

No, not really. Too many people were/are put to death for just being in the wrong place, being poor or in a lot of cases being the wrong color/race. I don't want anyone to die for these reasons.

But I'll gladly pull the switch myself for the true monsters.

Then your vote should have been yes lol.

[pope04]

Originally Posted by GGG

Is there any evidence that revenge helps victims?

While vacationing in BC this summer, I bumped into some people associated with the victims of the Wells Gray Park murders in 1982. The murderer, David Ennis (previously Shearing), was sentenced to 6 concurrent life terms in the mid 80s and was up for parole in 2008. These folks spoke of the hardship, anxiety and horror of attending parole hearings in another province (it's my understanding he's now in Bowden) every couple years just to do their part to keep this POS inside where he belongs.

So, no, obviously "revenge" doesn't do anything for the victims, but it would sure go a long way to "help" the victims' loved ones.

[Enoch Root]

First of all, yes there are cases of no doubt. If a person walks into a school or a government building or whatever, and shoots multiple people, on video, and is caught without leaving the building, there is no doubt.

In a situation like that, I can agree with it. Also, in that situation, the 'it costs more' defense doesn't hold because there aren't going to be lengthy appeals when the perpetrator is caught on sight, on video, with weapons, etc.

Also, we already have capital punishment, in a sense, because in certain situations, law enforcement will look to take down the suspect on sight.

I am on the fence, mainly because of the chance of miss-use. If it were only for extreme situations like the example above - sure.

Problem is: who decides where the line is?

[CroFlames]

In my view, if society is OK with murdering a murderer, then we as a society are no better than him.

[CaptainCrunch]

I could live without a death penalty if we could either bring back sentences at hard labor.

Yeah you want to rape and kill a kid enjoy the next 40 years of rock breaking til it breaks you and kills you.

Or hell hole prisons for multiple time violent or sexual offenders, by hell hole it means that you get the basic food requirements, nothing with flavor. No freaking TV and no entertainment facilities and the prison is self run, you grow food, and you clean up after yourself. You have a 100 foot tall solid metal wall around it with spikes on top. Two guards on the outside at the one door where they shove your a$$ through.

no guards no towers. No segregation for pedo's who have done it multiple times.

The door opens one way.

I just hope the presidents plane doesn't crash there.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

In my view, if society is OK with murdering a murderer, then we as a society are no better than him.

Your country would be very easy to invade.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Your country would be very easy to invade.

Remind me again when Canada was invaded?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I could live without a death penalty if we could either bring back sentences at hard labor.

Yeah you want to rape and kill a kid enjoy the next 40 years of rock breaking til it breaks you and kills you.

Why take away good paying jobs for hard working and deserving people or new immigrants?

[automaton 3]

In our present system, I'm not in favour. As others have mentioned, mistakes can be made in the judicial system, it is not humane, ect.

However there is a category of evil which I personally think that person should no longer be sharing oxygen with the rest of us (think Paul Bernardo). We would need another standard of proof though, something along the lines of "beyond all doubt".

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Your country would be very easy to invade.

I am not making the connection.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Why take away good paying jobs for hard working and deserving people or new immigrants?

Why would immigrants and deserving people want to work on jobs where they crush boulders to pebbles using a standard hammer. Or carry a pile of rocks from one end of the yard to the other endlessly?

[Locke]

I remember thinking after visiting Alcatraz that was a prison built for a singular purpose: Punishment.

You're the worst of the worst. We are unconcerned regarding your rehabilitation. This is going to be genuinely unpleasant. You will not be leaving.

There are definitely times when I think theres room for a place like that.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Locke

I remember thinking after visiting Alcatraz that was a prison built for a singular purpose: Punishment.

You're the worst of the worst. We are unconcerned regarding your rehabilitation. This is going to be genuinely unpleasant. You will not be leaving.

There are definitely times when I think theres room for a place like that.

Isn't that what the Supermax in Colorado is for now?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/25/us/dzh...permax-prison/

Many of the more than 400 inmates spend as much as 23 hours a day alone in 7-by-12-foot concrete cells. Meals are slid through small holes in the doors. Bed is a concrete slab dressed with a thin mattress and blankets.
A single window about 42 inches high and 4 inches wide allows some natural light but is made so prisoners cannot see beyond the building. Cells have unmovable stools and desks made of concrete. Solid walls prevent prisoners from seeing other cells or having direct contact with other inmates.

Inmates have little contact outside of guards and prison staff. They must wear leg irons, handcuffs and stomach chains when taken outside their cells -- and be escorted by guards. A recreation hour is allowed in an outdoor cage slightly larger than the prison cells. Inside the cage, only the sky is visible.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I am not making the connection.

It is easy to say we're more civilized than that, but I was pointing out just one example of the fact that there are times that you do have to shoot back, no matter how discomforting that is.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Isn't that what the Supermax in Colorado is for now?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/25/us/dzh...permax-prison/

That doesn't sound pleasant at all. Not one bit.

[FlamesAddiction]

I was reading a psychology book a while back and parts of it touched on the notions of justice and revenge a little bit (it called revenge the most natural and basic form of justice, but not necessarily the most appropriate).

The basic messages conveyed from the author was that revenge fantasies are actually quite therapeutic and help people get through difficult situations. It also said that revenge works best if it happens quickly following the event where someone was victimized, but that drawing it out over a long time is counter-productive because the victim will spend too much time, energy and resources dwelling on it. This is why revenge and due process cannot really co-exist. It talked about how the family of victims whose killer was put to death live anxiously until it happens, and then after a small moment "justice", they are let down because of how strenuous the whole process was. The execution can never give them back that time.

It also talked about how the desire for revenge in humans was an important social tools for early human communities.

[undercoverbrother]

fun times