How good is Sidney Crosby?

[Caged Great]

Lemieux is in another tier than Crosby. Crosby is more in the same tier as Sakic and Yzerman. Both are two of the very best in NHL history, as is Crosby. However there are tiers. Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr are clearly a tier above everyone else. Jagr is probably one of the top names on the second tier with Howe and Esposito, then the next tier which has guys like Sakic/Yzerman/Trottier/Lafleur/Crosby.

The main difference between eras since Richard, there have been multiple upper tier players that played together. This era has Crosby..... then Ovechkin and then another large gap to other players. A guy like Shanahan would be considered a beast in this era, despite being a top tier complimentary player on those Red Wing cup runs.

[Flash Walken]

Mario is the best player I ever saw.

Wayne #2.

Jagr #3.

Crosby is easily the best player of this generation. Ovechkin's goal scoring exploits are incredible, but he simply is not as good of an all-around hockey player as Crosby

[Huntingwhale]

I hope Crosby stays the best player in the world for the foreseeable future. Because after 40 something games the McDavid fanboys are preaching loud and proud about he's already better. Maybe down the road he has a chance to take over the #1 spot. But in speaking with them right now, he's already a sure thing best player in the league. All this after 40ish games.

I hope Crosby stays on top for a long time, if only to shut them up.

[Poe969]

He's good but there's no way I'd trade Backlund or Jankowski for him. His cap hit is huge and his contract would be an albatross moving forward.


He may not be as flashy as he was a few years ago but I still think he's the best player in the world right now and it's telling that he's the new measuring stick for players.

[GreenLantern2814]

Whenever the discussion of Gretzky/Lemieux comes up, I feel obliged to mention that Wayne Gretzky doesn't need a single one of his league leading 894 goals to be the league's all-time leading scorer.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Whenever the discussion of Gretzky/Lemieux comes up, I feel obliged to mention that Wayne Gretzky doesn't need a single one of his league leading 894 goals to be the league's all-time leading scorer.

To be fair, that's only true because Lemieux had a lot of health problems.

[H2SO4(aq)]

He's the best player on the ice every single shift. Miles better than ovechkin, and a much better player than toews. Albeit, if I needed one guy to win me one game, I'll take toews. Has that big game "it" factor, but as far as pure hockey ability nobody is better than Crosby.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by codynw

To be fair, that's only true because Lemieux had a lot of health problems.

I think Bossy would be #1 all-time in goals if he had been able to play for 20 seasons instead of 10. Neely would be right up there near the top too.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by codynw

To be fair, that's only true because Lemieux had a lot of health problems.

Lemieux's PPG pace was 1.81. Gretzky's was 1.92. Lemieux played 950 games, Gretzky 1487.

If Lemieux plays the same number of games as Gretzky, he winds up with 2691 points compared to Gretzky's 2857. Ironically, 166 points shy of Wayne.

That's actually a lot closer than I was expecting it to be. I do think it's remarkable Lemieux never played 1000 games. Truly the Bobby Orr of forwards.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Lemieux's PPG pace was 1.81. Gretzky's was 1.92. Lemieux played 950 games, Gretzky 1487.

If Lemieux plays the same number of games as Gretzky, he winds up with 2691 points compared to Gretzky's 2857. Ironically, 166 points shy of Wayne.

That's actually a lot closer than I was expecting it to be. I do think it's remarkable Lemieux never played 1000 games. Truly the Bobby Orr of forwards.

Before Lemieux tried coming back with a broken body, he was a fair bit ahead of Gretzky in PPG


Edit:

With a broken body and a 3+ year break he got an "awful" 229pts in 170 games over 5 seasons (1.35 PPG averaging only 35 games a season because he was so banged up).

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Before Lemieux tried coming back with a broken body, he was a fair bit ahead of Gretzky in PPG

Gretzky did a lot of damage to his ppg in his last 2-3 years with New York though.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Gretzky did a lot of damage to his ppg in his last 2-3 years with New York though.

Gretzky's last three years were 97, 90 and 62 (in 70 games) - you could argue he only hung on for one more year than he should have.

Lemieux put up 91 in 67 in 2002-03, 9 in 10 the year after that, and coming out of the lockout, 22 in 26 before retiring due to the heart issues.

Both guys harmed their PPG in the last few years.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Before Lemieux tried coming back with a broken body, he was a fair bit ahead of Gretzky in PPG

When Lemieux was forced to retire, the first time, he was still in his prime.

So while he retired nearish his peak PPG, Gretzky continued on for years reducing his PPG each season. At no point in their respective careers was Lemieux ever close to beating Gretzky's points though.

After 5 years in the league:
Lemieux had a measley 715 points in 368 games.
Gretzky had 914 points in 393 games.

After 9 years in the league (Lemieux had began to miss significant time due to injury but hadn't sat out a season):
Lemieux 1174 in 577 games. Just barely cracks 2 PPG with 2.03 points/game
Gretzky 1669 in 696 games. 2.4 PPG.

Certainly room to argue that what Lemieux did was more impressive given the slight era difference, but no room to argue that he would have beat Gretzky's records or really even come close, in my opinion.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Gretzky's last three years were 97, 90 and 62 (in 70 games) - you could argue he only hung on for one more year than he should have.

Both guys harmed their PPG in the last few years.

It's funny but 97 and 90 points is basically garbage by his standards, and they did hurt his ppg, though not as much as his 62 point season obviously.

That last part is basically my point. Lemieux's ppg was only better after Gretzky's golden years. After Mario played some years as an old man, it evened out. Can't have it both ways.

Old man Mario was better than old man Gretzky though.

[Vulcan]

Orr is the best player I've seen. He changed the game. Gretzky in 2nd as he gets credit for changing the game as well.

Other players I've seen such as Lemieux, Howe and Richard were pretty okay as well.

[activeStick]

Definitely one of the all time greats which is cool for us since we've watched him since he first started.

Goes to show also that even the great players can have extended slumps though. Can't remember anymore but how long was his slump this season? It was quite shocking to see him struggle in all facets for such a long period.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

He didn't win the Calder in his rookie year and hasn't won the Messier leadership award yet.

He won the Messier award in 2010.

[activeStick]

So it's a large consensus that he's awesome but I'm pretty sure the most we'd give up for him would be Wideman the 6th and a second ... sound about right?

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by activeStick

So it's a large consensus that he's awesome but I'm pretty sure the most we'd give up for him would be Wideman the 6th and a second ... sound about right?

Yah but that's a better deal than you think for them, cause Wideman fits a positional need for them...........or something.

[albertGQ]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

He's the best player on the ice every single shift. Miles better than ovechkin, and a much better player than toews. Albeit, if I needed one guy to win me one game, I'll take toews. Has that big game "it" factor, but as far as pure hockey ability nobody is better than Crosby.

Toews and his "it" factor? Didn't he go goalless this year in the playoffs?