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Old 05-24-2016, 11:32 PM   #81
Fire of the Phoenix
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Originally Posted by Strange Brew View Post
Not blaming BT for anything but I'm not convinced it should take 5 years to get back to the playoffs in a salary cap league. 8 of 14 teams make it in the west.

His two big acquisitions last year, Hamilton and Frolik played well in stretches but overall I would say their impact on the team was disappointing. I don't believe that was BT's fault. There will be growing pains with a new coach but it's fair to expect improvement and hopefully a playoff spot.
I expected playoffs by 2018, which meant three years out at the time. By year five I was hoping to at least be on the cusp of being a contender like Chicago was in 2008/2009.

Even with last year's success, I wasn't expecting playoffs this year, though I was somewhat optimistic. Frolik and Hamilton are good players, and Hamilton could be great, but there's more to hockey than just adding to your roster and expecting that it means that you have a better team. The 2015 Flames were like the 2004 Flames in a sense, they caught lighting in a bottle. It wasn't necessarily reflective of where the franchise was truly at, at the time. There are still a few holes that need filled if they are to have sustained success year after year, just as was the case in 2004. I remember being baffled at the time when the hockey news predicted Calgary vs Philadelphia in the final in 2005 (in the 2004 yearbook).

Last edited by Fire of the Phoenix; 05-24-2016 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 05-24-2016, 11:38 PM   #82
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Here's my rebuild schedule:

Year 1: Oilers
Year 2: Bottom five draft pick, great young talent being assembled
Year 3: Getting closer, but still a high pick to add to the young talent
Year 4: Playoff bubble team, like the Wild this year, but going the opposite direction developmentally
Year 5: Borderline Cup contender, like this years' Ducks
Year 6: Team with a legit shot of winning it all
Years 7-10: Cup favourite
Year 11: Begin to decline as stars age, like the 2009 Flames
Years 12-15: The 2010-2013 Flames or the 2016 Canucks, with no real sense of cohesion and a bunch of aging stars. The window has closed.

Rinse and repeat.
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Old 05-25-2016, 05:00 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by TheScorpion View Post
Here's my rebuild schedule:

Year 1: Oilers
Year 2: Bottom five draft pick, great young talent being assembled
Year 3: Getting closer, but still a high pick to add to the young talent
Year 4: Playoff bubble team, like the Wild this year, but going the opposite direction developmentally
Year 5: Borderline Cup contender, like this years' Ducks
Year 6: Team with a legit shot of winning it all
Years 7-10: Cup favourite
Year 11: Begin to decline as stars age, like the 2009 Flames
Years 12-15: The 2010-2013 Flames or the 2016 Canucks, with no real sense of cohesion and a bunch of aging stars. The window has closed.

Rinse and repeat.
How depressing. Your schedule would have the Flames awful for 8 straight years.
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Old 05-25-2016, 05:56 AM   #84
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How depressing. Your schedule would have the Flames awful for 8 straight years.
At least it means the Oilers would have been awful for 16+ years
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Old 05-25-2016, 07:29 AM   #85
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Next season we'll probably be a bubble team if we get decent goaltending.

But the season after next I expect us to be a playoff team. All our best players will be off their ELCs by then.
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Old 05-25-2016, 08:21 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Strange Brew View Post
Not blaming BT for anything but I'm not convinced it should take 5 years to get back to the playoffs in a salary cap league. 8 of 14 teams make it in the west.

His two big acquisitions last year, Hamilton and Frolik played well in stretches but overall I would say their impact on the team was disappointing. I don't believe that was BT's fault. There will be growing pains with a new coach but it's fair to expect improvement and hopefully a playoff spot.
Starting from scratch it should only take 5 years to get back? Look at where the Flames were in 2013. They traded Iginla for a late first and 2 garbage prospects that were not even in the Pens top 10. They then make a horrible Bouwmeester trade when he had 1.5 years left on his deal for a 26 year old euro goalie, career AHL Dman and a protected first rounder.

When the lockout shortened 2013 season ended it looked like a long road back to being a good team and we could only hope that Ekblad or McDavid were going to be ours.

Luckily for the Flames Sean Monahan turned into an amazing 6th overall pick and made an immediate impact. Where the Flames really were able to accelerate things was the development of Brodie and huge leap from Gio. Gio gets the C and goes from solid top 4 to bona fide number 1. Brodie quickly ascends to the top tier of defensemen as well. Having Gaudreau go from a risky 4th rounder to blue chip prospect also helped out immensely.

Enter year 2 the Flames were able to draft Sam Bennett at number 4. Gaudreau makes the team and goes off for 64pts. Monahan takes a huge leap to be a 30 goal guy. Gio and Brodie are considered a top 3-5 D pairing in the league. 2012 UFA signings Hudler and Wideman have insanely good seasons combining for over 130pts. Other young players like Jooris, Ferland, and Bouma all step up. Here we are a little more than 2 years after trading Iggy, Bouw and losing Kipper to retirement and the Flames are back in the playoffs.

That unexpected run gave the fans hope but many peeled back a layer and knew the Flames had a lot of luck in 2015. Itnisnpretty rare when a team out scores opponents when their goalie is pulled but the Flames did it and won a lot of games where they looked down and out. Treliving knew this and he had the difficult task of trying to build from the previous year but also concern himself with the long term. He pulls off an incredible heist from Boston. The morning of the draft the rumors circulated the Bruins were shopping Hamilton for the 3rd pick a trade that made some sense. At the end of the day the Bruins take the 15th, 45th, and 52nd picks in the draft. Calgary is declared the winner immediately and even moreso when Hamilton signs what many consider a very good contract. Treliving goes UFA hunting and signs a 27 year old all around player in Frolik. Both these players help the team get better right away but also fit in the long term plans. Injuries slowed Frolik who came as advertised. He was a .5ppg winger who would play a responsible 2 way game and play on your PK. Hamilton also was as expected which is a pleasant surprise because the first 25 games of his flames career were nothing short of a train wreck. In July if you told me Hamilton would end the season plying top 4 and have 12 goals and 43pts I take that all day.

I think the Flames are lucky to be entering the 4th summer of their rebuild with the core they have in place. Not many teams have this many pieces at their disposal when they tear it down. Credit Sutter for drafting Brodie, Backlund and signing Gio. Credit Feaster for getting Monahan and Gaudreau. Give Treliving credit for drafting Bennett and trading for Hamilton.

Many in the hockey world saw a long ugly rebuild in Calgary once the decision was made to turn the page on the Iginla/Kipper era. They got pennies for Iggy and Bouw and nothing for Kipper. 3 years later the team is considered to be one on the rise, with an exciting core, and an unexpected playoff run under their belt.
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Old 05-25-2016, 10:44 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix View Post
Blaming BT for missing the playoffs is funny considering it was year three of a rebuild. Maybe some of you should be happy for last year's suprise success and not hold it against the GM when the rebuild is progressing nicely overall.

When Burke was hired I told myself I would be happy if we made the playoffs by 2018. That seemed reasonable to me given the state of the team at the time. How some of you can actually hold the success of 2015 against BT is beyond me.
When the rebuild started, my timeline was basically:

2013-2016: focus entirely on rebuilding
2016/17: be on the rise and competing for the playoffs
2017/18: be an emerging contender
beyond 2018: be a legitimate contender for several years

To me, if they get to the contender status, then it is a successful rebuild. Period. How much they suck on the way, or whether they made the playoffs this year or not, is completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
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Old 05-25-2016, 11:52 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Strange Brew View Post
Not blaming BT for anything but I'm not convinced it should take 5 years to get back to the playoffs in a salary cap league. 8 of 14 teams make it in the west.

His two big acquisitions last year, Hamilton and Frolik played well in stretches but overall I would say their impact on the team was disappointing. I don't believe that was BT's fault. There will be growing pains with a new coach but it's fair to expect improvement and hopefully a playoff spot.
Whoa... First of all, Frolik had a great year and did EVERYTHING that could have been asked and more. The very last thing Frolik was throughout the season was "Disappointing". Infact, the comparisons I heard on some broadcasts was he plays a "Hossa" type game with less offensive instincts but that could change down the road.

Also, Backlund playing wityh Frolik for the most part this season, you seen Backlund's game elevate and thats huge since the Flames have had a tough time finding a winger to compliment Backlund's game.

As for Hamilton.. Are you serious? He took a couple months to adjust to a new team, system and teammates.. A couple months... Thats it. Sometimes it takes an entire season to adjust for most players, especially younger guys.

For Hamilton to produce the way he did and come around the way he has, it just shows how much of a stud this guy is. Hes the complete package and showed that the more he becomes comfortable, the nastier he can get. I see Hamilton as becoming one of the most complete defencemen in the game in a few years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew View Post
How depressing. Your schedule would have the Flames awful for 8 straight years.
I dont see 8 years, I see 4 years in his plan. If the Flames are perennial cup contenders by year 5, im happy.

If they remain cup contenders for 4-5 years and in the latter of that 5 years, cup favorites, thats pretty great.

A ton of things have to go right for that to happen. See the SJ Sharks last 5 years..
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