[GDT] Flames @ Oilers, 8 pm, CBC/SN

[GoJetsGo]

Yea I mean what good is "pride" anyway?

It's a very slippery slope cheering for losses, being indifferent, and embracing tanking. (Never mind cheering for the Oilers vs. the Flames).

There's a reason why Edmonton and Edmonton fans stand for everything we don't stand for.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

A loss tonight MIGHT give us a 1% better chance at landing the 1st OA. Count me out.

We have 4 games left. If we lose tonight, against the Kings and Wild and beat VAN we'd go 1-3. If the Flames go 1-3 we will have a 93% chance of finishing bottom 4. We are currently sitting 5th last but could certainly finish 6th last as well.

If we finish 3rd last we'd have a 11.5% chance of winning 1st, and a 34.2% chance of getting a top 3 pick
If we finish 4th last we'd have a 9.5% chance of winning 1st and a 29% chance of getting a top 3 pick
If we finish 5th last we'd have a 8.5% chance of winning 1st and a 26.3% chance of getting a top 3 pick
If we finish 6th last we'd have a 7.5% chance of winning 1st and a 23.5% chance of drafting top 3.

So a loss tonight would significantly help our chances of drafting top 3. Focusing only on winning 1st is kind of a poor way of looking at it since getting 2nd or 3rd would be absolutely massive for us. Losing tonight could improve our chances of drafting top 3 by a lot more than 1%

[FiveSeven]

I hope we score skilled goals and they get ridiculously lucky goals and win so we can feel like we won in heart.

It would really help with this overwhelming feeling of embarrassment I feel about wanting to draft a better player. The way someone thinks won't impact the results so why don't you let people think as they choose without silly judgements or comments. I want to lose but I don't want to become the oilers, I'm sure we can find a safe ground in there.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Yea I mean what good is "pride" anyway?

It's a very slippery slope cheering for losses, being indifferent, and embracing tanking. (Never mind cheering for the Oilers vs. the Flames).

There's a reason why Edmonton and Edmonton fans stand for everything we don't stand for.

I dislike losing to the Oilers.

But if a loss today means the Oilers and Flames have a chance at switching spots on Lottery day, I'll lose the battle to win the war.

Getting a top 3 pick and the OIlers out of a top 3 pick is a good conclusion. Not just because of talent but because the top 3 picks this year are all AHL-eligible whereas 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and maybe 9 (I'm not sure about Nylander) will have to be either rushed into the NHL or returned to Junior to play against kids.

It's only beneficial if we're developing a guy like Laine in Stockton to be an NHLer while the Oilers are rushing yet another top prospect to their NHL graveyard.

Don't we like seeing the Oilers fail from different angles?

[DJones]

It's the oilers people.

Cut the tank #### out

[mikephoen]

I hope that everyone hoping for the oilers to win (even oiler fans) has to pay extra taxes this year. It's for the greater good!

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I dislike losing to the Oilers.

But if a loss today means the Oilers and Flames have a chance at switching spots on Lottery day, I'll lose the battle to win the war.

Getting a top 3 pick and the OIlers out of a top 3 pick is a good conclusion. Not just because of talent but because the top 3 picks this year are all AHL-eligible whereas 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and maybe 9 (I'm not sure about Nylander) will have to be either rushed into the NHL or returned to Junior to play against kids.

It's only beneficial if we're developing a guy like Laine in stockton to be an NHLer while the Oilers are rushing yet another top prospect to their NHL graveyard.

Don't we like seeing the Oilers fail from different angles?

Again, there's a difference between being accepting of the result (were it a loss) without remorse, and actively cheering for the Edmonton Oilers to beat the Calgary Flames.

If you (not you in specific) find yourself watching the game tonight and feeling excited watching the Oilers score, you're a terrible excuse for a Flames fan. Full stop.

It's a fine line and slippery slope with regard to falling into the mindset that Oiler fans have cheering for losses, embracing the tank and bragging about their futility.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Again, there's a difference between being accepting of the result (were it a loss) without remorse, and actively cheering for the Edmonton Oilers to beat the Calgary Flames.

If you (not you in specific) find yourself watching the game tonight and feeling excited watching the Oilers score, you're a terrible excuse for a Flames fan. Full stop.

It's a fine line and slippery slope with regard to falling into the mindset that Oiler fans have cheering for losses, embracing the tank and bragging about their futility.

All I'm rooting for is

- Connor McDavid is kept off the boxscore
- Ortio keeps > .920 sv%
- The Leafs knock the Oilers out of 30th and the Flames knock the Jets out of 26th.

Whatever else happens, happens. Doesn't mean I'm cheering Oilers goals.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Yea I mean what good is "pride" anyway?

1) Beating the Oilers in a nothing game gives me very little satisfaction or pride. I just don't care any more about wins this season.

2) Reality > Pride. Potential improvement over the long-term outlook of this team > short-term pride. While I'm sure Hartley and the boys will play their best, there's no doubt Treliving and his scouts would rather lose every game for the rest of the season as well.

3) Not everything has to be compared to the stupid Oilers. They are a statistical outlier. There are 28 other teams to compare to....and several Stanley Cup winners who have benefited from higher draft picks. Teams don't win on pride alone.

[hockey.modern]

Please no Romanuk tonight.

[btimbit]

I'll be less upset than normal if the Flames lose, like a silver lining type thing. But I still want them to win

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

All I'm rooting for is

- Connor McDavid is kept off the boxscore
- Ortio keeps > .920 sv%
- The Leafs knock the Oilers out of 30th and the Flames knock the Jets out of 26th.

Whatever else happens, happens. Doesn't mean I'm cheering Oilers goals.

Not sure how you missed the "not you in specific" part. I was speaking to the broader topic and thought that was pretty clear.

One can be accepting of a bad result without actively cheering for Edmonton. Can't be much more clear than that.

[N-E-B]

It's win-win for us tonight. Either we lose, which is good, or we beat the Oilers, which is good.

Go Flames Go!

[Enoch Root]

The worst thing about this season is having to go through this stupid debate every game

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I'll be less upset than normal if the Flames lose, like a silver lining type thing. But I still want them to win

Bang on.

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Yea I mean what good is "pride" anyway?

It's a very slippery slope cheering for losses, being indifferent, and embracing tanking. (Never mind cheering for the Oilers vs. the Flames).

There's a reason why Edmonton and Edmonton fans stand for everything we don't stand for.

I admire your passion. I tend to avoid these types of heated conversations for a reason, politics, religions,etc. I avoid them all because nothign typically comes from them other than anger. And life is too short for that type of thing. But hell, you've caught me on an afternoon where my kids are outside playing with friends, my wife is at work and the sun is shining. So I've got some time and feel like we can be civil here.

I've got a similar passion when I read comments about guys like Matt Stajan, who play hard night in and night out, yet are consistently mentioned as an anchor that the team needs to jettison. Seems people often forget that these players aren't just assets or resources... they're people. People with families and emotions and personal lives. And therein lies the hypocrisy.

The argument is often made that hockey is a business and that's that. Well, I disagree wholeheartedly. Businesses, regardless of industry, are nothing without their people. And treating them like disposable assets in any circumstance makes my blood boil.

If we want to speak about pride, then let's take some pride in the guys that wear the jersey, regardless of how their performance has been this season. If we want to cheer on the Flames and then in the same breath suggest that "Hiller's a bum" or "Raymond is useless" or "Bollig needs to be sent to the minors because there's someone younger and hungrier waiting to take his job"...

These are the Flames players we're talking about here. The names that we wear on the backs of our jerseys. The players that our kids grow up idolizing. The guys that would run through a wall to help the team overcome an obstacle.

But if they don't score for ten in a row, by god, send 'em to the minors, trade them or sit their asses down in the box.

Yes, hockey is a business. But the Flames are a family. And family trumps business, every day of the week where I come from.

Now, having said all that, and to bring it around full-circle. When it comes to family, I'm perfectly comfortable losing an argument with my wife if it means a happy marriage. I'm also content with letting my kids make mistakes so they can learn from them and be armed with the knowledge that next time they're in a similar situation, they'll remember what they learned and use it to be more successful than ever before.

Why do we fall, Bruce? So that we learn how to get back up.

So, yes, let's hope the Oil win one meaningless game. Because for the next three "meaningless" games, Calgary and all the players that I love, needs to learn some meaningful lessons.

[Yoho]

The game thread posts will be epic tonight.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

I admire your passion. I tend to avoid these types of heated conversations for a reason, politics, religions,etc. I avoid them all because nothign typically comes from them other than anger. And life is too short for that type of thing. But hell, you've caught me on an afternoon where my kids are outside playing with friends, my wife is at work and the sun is shining. So I've got some time and feel like we can be civil here.

I've got a similar passion when I read comments about guys like Matt Stajan, who play hard night in and night out, yet are consistently mentioned as an anchor that the team needs to jettison. Seems people often forget that these players aren't just assets or resources... they're people. People with families and emotions and personal lives. And therein lies the hypocrisy.

The argument is often made that hockey is a business and that's that. Well, I disagree wholeheartedly. Businesses, regardless of industry, are nothing without their people. And treating them like disposable assets in any circumstance makes my blood boil.

If we want to speak about pride, then let's take some pride in the guys that wear the jersey, regardless of how their performance has been this season. If we want to cheer on the Flames and then in the same breath suggest that "Hiller's a bum" or "Raymond is useless" or "Bollig needs to be sent to the minors because there's someone younger and hungrier waiting to take his job"...

These are the Flames players we're talking about here. The names that we wear on the backs of our jerseys. The players that our kids grow up idolizing. The guys that would run through a wall to help the team overcome an obstacle.

But if they don't score for ten in a row, by god, send 'em to the minors, trade them or sit their asses down in the box.

Yes, hockey is a business. But the Flames are a family. And family trumps business, every day of the week where I come from.

Now, having said all that, and to bring it around full-circle. When it comes to family, I'm perfectly comfortable losing an argument with my wife if it means a happy marriage. I'm also content with letting my kids make mistakes so they can learn from them and be armed with the knowledge that next time they're in a similar situation, they'll remember what they learned and use it to be more successful than ever before.

Why do we fall, Bruce? So that we learn how to get back up.

So, yes, let's hope the Oil win one meaningless game. Because for the next three "meaningless" games, Calgary and all the players that I love, needs to learn some meaningful lessons.

Great post and i couldnt agree more with 99% of it. When posters call players "hot garbage" or "trash"....it's embarrassing even if understandable at times. And this coming from a guy who detests those that cheer for their team to lose games as i think its pathetic and defeatist and nothing else regardless of lottery ball possibilities. You cheer for losses? You're a loser yourself.


But that last line?

What possible "meaningful lessons" can a group of professional players learn by losing the rest of the way? Losing learns them NOTHING at all or bad teams would always be better the following season.

[Samonadreau]

Put me down for a win tonight. Usually ok with losses but it's the stinking oilers. 5-0 win tonight.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

I admire your passion. I tend to avoid these types of heated conversations for a reason, politics, religions,etc. I avoid them all because nothign typically comes from them other than anger. And life is too short for that type of thing. But hell, you've caught me on an afternoon where my kids are outside playing with friends, my wife is at work and the sun is shining. So I've got some time and feel like we can be civil here.

I've got a similar passion when I read comments about guys like Matt Stajan, who play hard night in and night out, yet are consistently mentioned as an anchor that the team needs to jettison. Seems people often forget that these players aren't just assets or resources... they're people. People with families and emotions and personal lives. And therein lies the hypocrisy.

The argument is often made that hockey is a business and that's that. Well, I disagree wholeheartedly. Businesses, regardless of industry, are nothing without their people. And treating them like disposable assets in any circumstance makes my blood boil.

If we want to speak about pride, then let's take some pride in the guys that wear the jersey, regardless of how their performance has been this season. If we want to cheer on the Flames and then in the same breath suggest that "Hiller's a bum" or "Raymond is useless" or "Bollig needs to be sent to the minors because there's someone younger and hungrier waiting to take his job"...

These are the Flames players we're talking about here. The names that we wear on the backs of our jerseys. The players that our kids grow up idolizing. The guys that would run through a wall to help the team overcome an obstacle.

But if they don't score for ten in a row, by god, send 'em to the minors, trade them or sit their asses down in the box.

Yes, hockey is a business. But the Flames are a family. And family trumps business, every day of the week where I come from.

Now, having said all that, and to bring it around full-circle. When it comes to family, I'm perfectly comfortable losing an argument with my wife if it means a happy marriage. I'm also content with letting my kids make mistakes so they can learn from them and be armed with the knowledge that next time they're in a similar situation, they'll remember what they learned and use it to be more successful than ever before.

Why do we fall, Bruce? So that we learn how to get back up.

So, yes, let's hope the Oil win one meaningless game. Because for the next three "meaningless" games, Calgary and all the players that I love, needs to learn some meaningful lessons.

This is a dizzying post. For one, I've never degraded any player like that, so I'm not sure what that has to do with what I've said in this thread and why you're saying it while quoting me.

Second, you go from joking people here are taking things too seriously to speaking about Flames Players like they're your kids needing to learn lessons?

Aside from how overly serious that seems, the part you're missing in talking about the players and the logos on their jersey - is pride. Despite what you're getting at (in a very round about way) every guy on that team is going to go out there and play with pride tonight, no doubt deeply wanting to beat this embarrassing Oilers team. And I'm good with that and wouldn't have it any other way.

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

So, yes, let's hope the Oil win one meaningless game. Because for the next three "meaningless" games, Calgary and all the players that I love, needs to learn some meaningful lessons.

This is the nuts and bolts of what I take issue with.

No, lets not "hope" the Oilers win tonight. Let's cheer on our guys with pride and rest easy in knowing we can shrug off a loss if it happens for the greater good. I see a big difference, and think I've been pretty clear about that.