[News] Flames recall LW Kenny Agostino on emergency basis

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Let's call this what it is, the Flames are sitting anyone with a bump or bruise to get regulars out of the lineup to help them lose games.

No, it's to help them evaluate minor leaguers.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

No, it's to help them evaluate minor leaguers.

whatever helps you sleep better, you know as well as I do if it were the Oilers or Canucks in this situation people here would be all over them for it.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

whatever helps you sleep better, you know as well as I do if it were the Oilers or Canucks in this situation people here would be all over them for it.

So what, who cares. Are you going for the contrarian Gold Medal today?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

whatever helps you sleep better, you know as well as I do if it were the Oilers or Canucks in this situation people here would be all over them for it.

For what? What have they done?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

whatever helps you sleep better, you know as well as I do if it were the Oilers or Canucks in this situation people here would be all over them for it.

All over them how? Making fun of them for sucking?

I think most intelligent fans realize rebuilding is one part of the life cycle of most teams. I don't think the Flames are tanking. Do I think they might be more willing to rest players than if we were in a playoff race? Of course, that's only natural. That's not tanking. Do I think they may start some bad backups at some point? Of course, that's only natural, Ortio isn't going to play every single game. Does it make sense to start our crappy backups vs the other bad teams? Yes it does, because it keeps competitive balance by us not folding to the good teams who are in playoff races.

I can't really agree if you call that blatant tanking. I think all those actions are perfectly logical and defendable for bottom tier teams to do at this point in the season. I think the whole tanking term is overused to some extent. Obviously BUF bottomed out last year but they made a lot of moves to improve this offseason. TOR bottomed out this year, guess we'll see what they do next. This and the Bennett year look like our two bottom out years and I'd expect us to be competing for a playoff race again next season.

[IgiTang]

The Dougie Hamilton interview during the 2nd intermission vs Sharks summed it up for me.

The team is playing for pride he said, but the look on his face, he was disappointed knowing the season was over.

I think this is a direct reflection of the team and management. If you know it's over, but you want to play for pride, that doesn't mean winning games. It means, no matter who is on the ice, they are playing every shift hard and trying to compete. Not just mailing it in. Gio's comments yesterday were that of calling the team out for mailing it in vs the yotes.

That said, if the team is playing hard and showing compete and giving prospects a look, I don't think anyone can compare that to what has happened in Edmonton.

Every season for how many years? They have been rotating prospects in and out since game 1 of the regular season. Theyve been dumping vets and being content with losing, therefore, mailing it in.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

whatever helps you sleep better, you know as well as I do if it were the Oilers or Canucks in this situation people here would be all over them for it.

The funny thing is that the Oilers aren't tanking, never have been. They've been trying to win but they have just been that bad for years. And the Canucks are close behind.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

So what, who cares. Are you going for the contrarian Gold Medal today?

oh look its you trying to stir things up, what a shock

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

oh look its you trying to stir things up, what a shock

It seems that you were the one trying to stir things up actually.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

oh look its you trying to stir things up, what a shock

Protecting injured players, no matter how slight, when the playoffs are out of reach makes perfect sense, and isn't tanking. Why risk the futures of your best blueliners and your franchise building center for a couple days down the stretch now?

It's no different then not playing Russell prior to the deadline.

[Moderator]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

oh look its you trying to stir things up, what a shock

K, let's avoid the finger pointing. Please stay on topic or put certain posters on ignore if it bothers you so much.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

It seems that you were the one trying to stir things up actually.

I'm sorry that I shared an opinion on a message board and then defended my opinion. For some reason I thought that was the point of these places. I guess I should just fall in line and stop thinking for myself.

[CMPunk]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I'm sorry that I shared an opinion on a message board and then defended my opinion. For some reason I thought that was the point of these places. I guess I should just fall in line and stop thinking for myself.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I'm sorry that I shared an opinion on a message board and then defended my opinion. For some reason I thought that was the point of these places. I guess I should just fall in line and stop thinking for myself.

Well if you wanted to defend your opinion how come you didn't respond to my post above ^?

C'mon man, how do you think your argument comes across? We're sitting guys to try to lose games? Who can buy in to that argument? We're sitting guys when they are injured because we're not in a playoff race so we don't need them to play through injuries because it isn't a desperate time. The motivation to sit not them is not to lose games, that's a silly argument and you were called out on it as you should be. The motivation to sit them is to get them healthy. The side benefit of sitting them is that we get to see recalls and maybe we lose a couple more games. The side benefit does not equal the motivation. I think it's pretty clear.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Well if you wanted to defend your opinion how come you didn't respond to my post above ^?

C'mon man, how do you think your argument comes across? We're sitting guys to try to lose games? Who can buy in to that argument? We're sitting guys when they are injured because we're not in a playoff race so we don't need them to play through injuries because it isn't a desperate time. The motivation to sit not them is not to lose games, that's a silly argument and you were called out on it as you should be. The motivation to sit them is to get them healthy. The side benefit of sitting them is that we get to see recalls and maybe we lose a couple more games. The side benefit does not equal the motivation. I think it's pretty clear.

I think it's pretty easy to buy into when you consider a couple poor deadline deals (of course if I express that opinion I am will just be insulted and accused of stirring things up), scratching Gaudreau & Monahan against the Leafs, magically picking only the Sabres game to experiment with Bennett as the #1C. It's all adding up dude. I'm not a conspiracy guy and I hate tanking, so all these things are adding up to something I don't want to believe. But it seems to me they are doing many little things to ensure a better chance at losing. I'm not expecting people to buy into it with it being a handful of subtle things, even many Sabres fans denied they were tanking last year despite it being obvious.

[GioforPM]

Lol. Poor deadline deals that most writers considered the Flames either won (Russell) or were fair (Jones and Hudler). The game Gaudreau and Monahan (and Bouma who you didn't mention) were scratched? The won the Flames won you mean? And an experiment which could go either way is a sign of tanking? And it's surprising that it's against a lower team? I find your logic specious.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Lol. Poor deadline deals that most writers considered the Flames either won (Russell) or were fair (Jones and Hudler). The game Gaudreau and Monahan (and Bouma who you didn't mention) were scratched? The won the Flames won you mean? And an experiment which could go either way is a sign of tanking? And it's surprising that it's against a lower team? I find your logic specious.

That's nice, I am still entitled to it no matter how wrong you think it is.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

That's nice, I am still entitled to it no matter how wrong you think it is.

And the rest of us are entitled to tell you you're mistaken.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Well then what you call "tanking" is what some of us would call normal business for teams that have no chance at the playoffs. You sell UFAs for futures and stop getting your players to play through injuries. That's what most teams do in this position.

For some us the word tanking implies that we're trying to lose. Nobody is trying to lose. Hartley is coaching to win. The players are playing to win. The manager is doing moves that look after the long term success of the team since the short term is a write off. You may see that as him trying to lose since he made the team worse in the short term by dealing Russell, Hudler, and Jones for Backstrom, Jokipakka and futures but its the smart move for the long term of the club by trading expiring assets for assets that will benefit us in trades or draft. He doesn't want to lose, he's just making the smart, sensible moves that every team tries to do when they are out of the playoff race. He'd be stupid and short-sighted not to make those moves.

Now in the rebuild cycle some teams end up tearing down their current assets and putting that into futures. This is where people are accused of "tanking". BUF last year is an example of this. TOR this year. Us the year we dealt Iginla and Bouwmeester, that was arguably much more of a tank job than this year. That year we dealt our best forward and one of our best defensemen. This year we dealt an underachieving forward and a defenseman that a lot of fans didn't think very highly of. Our best players remain and are a very good promising core. We aren't dismantling our current team, we had a crappy year for a variety of reasons and Treliving made the smart moves to get value for our UFAs. Out of it we'll end up with a very nice draft pick. Nobody is trying to lose.

I'm sure you'll ignore this post in favour of some dramatic response and choose not to engage in the very debate you started. It's a debate centered around terminology. It's a debate IMO mostly because of the negative implications of word "tanking", implications that I don't think exist for the Flames right now. Having injured players sit out, trading away UFAs for futures and playing your backups occasionally are not signs that we are "trying to lose" or "tanking".

[killer_carlson]

Our team hasn't been good enough this year.

I want to see some young players given an opportunity to play and put some pressure on the veterans for roster spots next year. If that means we can trade veterans, then so be it. If it means we demote or waive them, so be it.

But I see very little value in asking a banged up vet to grind out another game this season when we have a prospect who may actually outperform if given the opportunity.