[Signing] Panthers sign Barkov to 6 year extension ($5.9mil AAV)

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

So when Barkov was 19 he had 36 points in 71 games 0.51 points per game

When Monahan was 19 years old he had 34 points in 75 games 0.45 points per game

In his 20 year old season Barkov has 30 points in 38 games 0.79 points per game

In Monahan's 20 year old season he had 62 points in 81 games 0.77 points per game.

And Monahan is a much better player and should get more money despite scoring at a lower rate? Do I have that right?

No

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

No

So would he get more money because he had more goals per game? Or because of his intangibles. Because when comparing apples to apples, Barkov gets more points.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

So would he get more money because he had more goals per game? Or because of his intangibles. Because when comparing apples to apples, Barkov gets more points.

If he gets more money, it would be because he wanted more money and the Flames are willing to give him more money.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

If he gets more money, it would be because he wanted more money and the Flames are willing to give him more money.

I just fail to see how Monahan is a much better player. Barkov has more points in his 19 year old year and may end up with more points in his 20 year old year (by slight margins in each year). He has to go up against Krejci, Stamkos, Zetterberg amongst others in his division (3 of the top centers in the game) and he does fairly well. I would say they are as close to spot on comparables for contract value as one may find.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Because when comparing apples to apples, Barkov gets more points.

Also has had to play half of his career so far with the likes of Brad Boyes & Sean Bergenheim. Never had a superstar like Gaudreau.

Now he has Huberdeau and Jagr and they are really good players but Barkov is the one driving that line.

Anyway Monahan is a great player too and the margins are really small in the end.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

So would he get more money because he had more goals per game? Or because of his intangibles. Because when comparing apples to apples, Barkov gets more points.

Except Barkov has not scored more points than Monahan in any of their 3 seasons. I get that Monahan is 10.5 months older but they both entered the NHL the same season as rookies from the same draft class.

At the end of the day Monahan likely gets $6.5M per season on a 6-8 year term.

[Tinordi]

Monahan right now is as good as Nieuwendyk?

You need to take a time out.

Back off topic, Barkov is the better player, and I don't really think it's close.

[dieHARDflameZ]

If salary was all about points, Toews would not be a 10.5 million dollar cap hit.

For those focusing solely on point production, there's so much more to it.

I haven't watched Barkov a ton, but what I have seen of him has left me fairly impressed. With that said, for those saying he's miles ahead of Monahan, how?

[GranteedEV]

What does this show?

Year 1, Monahan was more sheltered. Barkov saw a better ratio of chances for vs chances against.
Year 2, the players faced similar competition, Barkov getting a bit easier deployment but being notably better in terms of a better ratio of chances for vs chances against..
Year 3, the players are facing similar competition, Barkov getting much more defensive deployment but being notably better in terms of a better ratio of chances for vs chances against.

Granted, Monahan often plays with Kris Russell and Barkov often plays with Not Kris Russell. But I think people denying the validity of these graphs tend to similarily deny what these graphs tend to tell us about Kris Russell anyways.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

...Barkov is the better player, and I don't really think it's close.

Wrong. I don't care whom between the two you think is the better player, the most definitive part of this debate IS IN FACT that Barkov and Monahan are very close.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Wrong. I don't care whom between the two you think is the better player, the most definitive part of this debate IS IN FACT that Barkov and Monahan are very close.

Maybe among Flames fans it's close but if you look outside of the epistemic bubble you'd find that sentiment would be rather different.

All I'm saying is that there's a clear ranking between the two players. That's why it's not close. Added to that, there's uniform sentiment around the league on the ranking that no amount of huffing and puffing will cloud over.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Maybe among Flames fans it's close but if you look outside of the epistemic bubble you'd find that sentiment would be rather different.

Sports is certainly what-have-you-done-for-me-lately, enough so that Barkov probably wins pretty handily if asked today.

But in October, HFBoards did do a poll and 60% of fans took Monahan over Barkov.

At the time, maybe Monahan gets a bonus for his team doing better the previous season, therefore having more notability and probably more Flames fans voting than Panther fans. But really, a couple months back at worse Monahan was on par with Barkov. I don't think it's just among us Flames fans that you would find people who consider them "close."

[Tinordi]

Also, I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread but this isn't really a *discount* for Barkov because the contract will end when he's 26 so the Panthers aren't buying UFA years. This is a similar contract to Stamkos' expiring contract. Barkov is set up to be paid big again after this deal and it's why the AAV seems low.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Also, I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread but this isn't really a *discount* for Barkov because the contract will end when he's 26 so the Panthers aren't buying UFA years. This is a similar contract to Stamkos' expiring contract. Barkov is set up to be paid big again after this deal and it's why the AAV seems low.

You're right that his RFA status played significantly towards the low AAV. But they are buying 2 UFA years though.

It's 7 years or 27, he's already been in the league for 3 years.

[nightfx]

Monahan is awesome but he doesn't really make his linemates better like Barkov does. I always notice Barkov whenever I watch the Panthers whereas Monahan is invisible for most games despite his production.

[Caged Great]

The key difference between the two is that Monahan doesn't have any truly elite skills. All of his particular talents are a notch below elite. Because of that he isn't flashy in any way.

Overall they are about equal, but I would have to give a slight slight edge to Barkov, but it is very marginal.

[Tinordi]

Monahan has an elite shot, at least his shot placement is superb.

[CliffFletcher]

Monahan has elite offensive instincts and hands in close. Good, but not great vision and passing. Power, speed, grittiness are average. He's responsible defensively, but not great, and probably never will be. Barkov has better power, speed, playmaking, and defensive acumen, and is shaping into a great all-around centre. I love Monahan, but I wouldn't hesitate to swap him for Barkov.

[PeteMoss]

Big load of recency bias for the Barkov is better than Monahan crowd.

Barkov (and his team) is trending up to hit Monahan's level, Monahan has held steady or regressed this year,

Pretty similar players and I suspect most scouts would say something similar.

[YYC in LAX]

6 x $5.9M hey? Panthers demonstrating you NEVER go full Oiler.