[Rumour] Flames still trying to re-sign Russell

[saillias]

I'm going to pull my hair out if we re-sign him. This and the Cowen rumors really have me scared about the direction of our management. Hope it's all a smokescreen.

[Tacopuck]

Doubt he wants to take a hometown discount like Glencross but would Russell consider:

8 years at $2.5M NMC for first 4.

I'm not sure if I'm even serious with this idea

[polak]

As a bottom pairing defensemen only.

Hes not good but he is good enough for the bottom pairing.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Am I the only one that would like to keep Smid and Engalland?

I think Smid has looked great in every game he has played. I'm confused why he doesn't get more games.

Wideman and to a lesser extent Russell have been turn over machines. But at least Russell doesn't get caught out of position that often and still brings the best of shot blocking in league.

Gio-Brodie
Smid-Hamilton
Russell-Engalland

Is a group I could handle after the deadline.
Keep your 6 and 7th spots open to start cycling the farm through.

Move Wideman for a pick and still have some beef and guys who can clear the front of the net.

Of course if Smid was required to be involved to make a trade work that brings us a stud, or if you can get a decent prospect back, move him.

But just to dump him, I don't see the sense in it.

I don't see how Smid has played himself into being a top 4 D on any team outside of Edmonton. He and Engellend make a combined $6.4M. Add that to the overpriced bottom 6 forwards Stajan, Raymond and Bollig there teally is not a ton of room to give Gaudreau and Monahan the raises they need and add around them. We have no goalie signed next year so that needs to be addressed. Also if we could trade Wideman for a pick I would be surprised. I don't see a team taking on $5.25 salary for a 4/5 and not forcing the Flames to take back cap as well.

I think Russell should be traded for picks/prospects and for some reason if he is signed then 2 of Smid, Engellend, and Wideman need to go

[polak]

Originally Posted by Tacopuck

Doubt he wants to take a hometown discount like Glencross but would Russell consider:

8 years at $2.5M NMC for first 4.

I'm not sure if I'm even serious with this idea

WHAT.

You want to sign Kris Russel for eight years!? God no.

2 years max. Guy is trending down.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Am I the only one that would like to keep Smid and Engalland?

I think Smid has looked great in every game he has played. I'm confused why he doesn't get more games.

Wideman and to a lesser extent Russell have been turn over machines. But at least Russell doesn't get caught out of position that often and still brings the best of shot blocking in league.

Gio-Brodie
Smid-Hamilton
Russell-Engalland

Is a group I could handle after the deadline.
Keep your 6 and 7th spots open to start cycling the farm through.

Move Wideman for a pick and still have some beef and guys who can clear the front of the net.

Of course if Smid was required to be involved to make a trade work that brings us a stud, or if you can get a decent prospect back, move him.

But just to dump him, I don't see the sense in it.

Right now, Russell is the most valuable trade piece we have. A pending UFA, and his contract is going to be microscopic at the deadline. There should be a line of contenders who want to add a fringe top-4 defenseman who basically doesn't have a salary cap hit.

Last year, the Blackhawks had to run Kimmo Timmonen out there for sometimes as few as five minutes a night. The loss of Michael Roszival was a huge issue for them, so much so Trevor "No meaningful hockey in six months" Van Riemsdyk was playing in game 6 of the Stanley Cup finals. Imagine what they would have given to be able to bring a player like Russell up from the 3rd pair.

I don't think two 2nd round picks is unreasonable for Russell, and it wouldn't surprise me if Treliving manages to parlay him into a late 1st from someone. You can never have enough D in the playoffs.

Russell/Wideman and Smid/Engelland are also a bit analogous of one another. Russell and Wideman are both offensively gifted, defensively meh, 3rd pairing D who can step up and play top 4 if you really need them to. If we assumed a raise to $4.5M for Russell, the difference in salary is only $750k. Not chump change, but for the same role, it's pretty much a wash.

Smid and Engelland are the same big, clunky, physical 3rd pairing D who bring next to no offense, and don't make great breakout passes. But they're warriors and I'm sure everyone in the room adores both. Engelland makes $2.9M, Smid $3.5M. Just like Wideman/Russell, the difference in salary pretty minor.

There is room on the team for one of each. Not both. Wideman is under contract for another year, Russell has more value on the open market. Since they fill pretty much the same role in a perfect world, trade Russell, keep Wideman where he is.

Of Engelland/Smid, I would prefer to keep Engelland - he doesn't have Smid's injury history, he has a year less on his deal, his buyout is cheaper, and he was photographed doing this.



I still don't think any of the four will be here in 18 months.

[Tacopuck]

Originally Posted by polak

WHAT.

You want to sign Kris Russel for eight years!? God no.

2 years max. Guy is trending down.

Yes, I do. For the right price. He is far more useful than people on this board / twitter make him out to be. This is why there is interest for him (you know by the people in the NHL actually making decisions) That said I don't want to pay him more than 2.5M/year, trade him if he cant be done for that.

[Ashasx]

Signing Russell to $2.5 million for 4 years, nevermind 8 years plus a NMC, would be absolutely insane.

[VladtheImpaler]

Any sort of attachment to depth players on a non-playoff team is ridiculous. The other 3 cannot realistically be traded for value until the next deadline, so you have to trade this one now and get as many picks as you can. Doing that with Glencross led to Hamilton. Who knows what will be available at this year's draft...

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by saillias

I'm going to pull my hair out if we re-sign him. This and the Cowen rumors really have me scared about the direction of our management. Hope it's all a smokescreen.

Reasons not to be scared:

1. I doubt that BT shares much with media. So no one outside of Flames management knows what the real roster plans are.

2. Any rumours are being generated from leaks on other teams, some like Ottawa and agents love to blab.

3. BT calls everyone and talks to everyone about everything as part of his superhuman diligence on what is happening and what things are worth.

So I think a lot of these rumours are misinterpreting BT's usual cycle of activity. Frankly if deals were to be had on any of the stuff BT has called other teams about, I think the deals would be done before a rumour even got started.

IMO he is decisive and probably knows what he is willing to pay for any roster player in the NHL that would improve the Flames. I think he has the discipline to walk away from over payments and not look back.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Any sort of attachment to depth players on a non-playoff team is ridiculous. The other 3 cannot realistically be traded for value until the next deadline, so you have to trade this one now and get as many picks as you can. Doing that with Glencross led to Hamilton. Who knows what will be available at this year's draft...

It all goes back to how far the NFL is ahead of the NHL in regards to managing salary cap. In the NFL they simply don't attach themselves to depth players as all the money goes to the top players and the rest is filled in via the draft and 2nd tier free agents. In the big picture Russell is not going to help this team get over the top and should not get a long term deal at more than $4 million a season. It's this type of antiquated management mindset that has paralyzed the league to the point where trades are extremely difficult. I was really hoping Treliving would be smarter than this.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Well it is realistic to think that Dougie improves enough to be that number 3 next year. Just because he is not there at 22 doesn't mean he can't elevate to that position at 23. One player they could target is Brayden Coburn who is a LHD and lives in Calgary during the offseason.

Brayden Coburn is 4/5/6 (along with Stustr and Carle) on Tampa team that dresses 7 D-men on a regular basis. He is currently a 4.5 M cap hit.

Do you think he would bring a 3rd round pick at the trade deadline?

He would be used as a comparable for Russell getting a big UFA payoff.

Hamilton should easily be at least a #3. But I would like to see him make it happen. Can he do it without Russell? or Wideman? When he is paired with Engelland they look like a 5/6 pairing.

[Sylvanfan]

I do like Kris Russell. But the Flames have to tread carefully here. Next year they have a really expensive D core and 3 guys who will be really overpaid. If the cap stays stagnant things will be tight.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Any sort of attachment to depth players on a non-playoff team is ridiculous. The other 3 cannot realistically be traded for value until the next deadline, so you have to trade this one now and get as many picks as you can. Doing that with Glencross led to Hamilton. Who knows what will be available at this year's draft...

Agreed. I like Russell for a number of reasons as well, but at the same time I dont see him fitting here, especially if he wants big dollars.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It all goes back to how far the NFL is ahead of the NHL in regards to managing salary cap. In the NFL they simply don't attach themselves to depth players as all the money goes to the top players and the rest is filled in via the draft and 2nd tier free agents. In the big picture Russell is not going to help this team get over the top and should not get a long term deal at more than $4 million a season. It's this type of antiquated management mindset that has paralyzed the league to the point where trades are extremely difficult. I was really hoping Treliving would be smarter than this.

Same. Best case scenario: He's playing a long poker game and this is all mindgames to increase Russell's value

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Reasons not to be scared:

1. I doubt that BT shares much with media. So no one outside of Flames management knows what the real roster plans are.

2. Any rumours are being generated from leaks on other teams, some like Ottawa and agents love to blab.

3. BT calls everyone and talks to everyone about everything as part of his superhuman diligence on what is happening and what things are worth.

So I think a lot of these rumours are misinterpreting BT's usual cycle of activity. Frankly if deals were to be had on any of the stuff BT has called other teams about, I think the deals would be done before a rumour even got started.

IMO he is decisive and probably knows what he is willing to pay for any roster player in the NHL that would improve the Flames. I think he has the discipline to walk away from over payments and not look back.

The bolded is a good point. I could see this considering he's been in on nearly every big name player who was on the trade market.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Why is it so hard for the Calgary Flames to move on from mediocre veterans?

[Erick Estrada]

You would have thought that after signing Gio to a deal he has to know will be prohibitive down the road that Treliving knew that that would mean he would have to accept that he couldn't keep the current group together. This is the 25th overall team in the NHL for crying out loud. If anything he should be looking for solutions not overpaying to keep the losing formula together as this team is starting to get close to being a cap paralyzed team as is and the goaltending situation is a total mess.

Fix the goaltending position first and either use Russell to trade for a goaltender or use him to accumulate picks that can be flipped in a trade for a goaltender. It's absolutely ridiculous IMO that re-signing Russell is even an option for this team considering how dire the goaltending situation is.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Why is it so hard for the Calgary Flames to move on from mediocre veterans?

Care to elaborate? Outside of keeping Stajan which I think was a bad move what are other examples of this?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Care to elaborate? Outside of keeping Stajan which I think was a bad move what are other examples of this?

Remove "mediocre" from the post and you have Russell, Iggy, Bourque was two years too late.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Remove "mediocre" from the post and you have Russell, Iggy, Bourque was two years too late.

They cut bait with mediocre guys like Bourque and Glencross at the right time. Iggy is a tough one because he is the best player in the history of the franchise so can't be put in the same group. Yes they kept him too long but he is a special case. They moved on from Regehr, Bouwmeester, Jokinen, Tanguay at the right time so I don't buy that comment especially from the current management. Stajan and maybe Backlund are the guys that qualify but until Russell, Hudler, and Jones sign extensions it is an incorrect comment IMO