Notes from Nov 6 Practice: Ferland "Close" UPD: Ferland will join team on road trip

[kyuss275]

With Ferland coming back do the flames have to get rid of someone on the roster? If so, i guess it will be Grant. Would like it to be Raymond, but i don't see it happening.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

With Ferland coming back do the flames have to get rid of someone on the roster? If so, i guess it will be Grant. Would like it to be Raymond, but i don't see it happening.

Raymond was waived on October 5. So he's been on the roster more than 30 days since he cleared, and if he is to be assigned instead of Grant he would need to clear waivers again to do so. We'll see how things shake out this week.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

With Ferland coming back do the flames have to get rid of someone on the roster? If so, i guess it will be Grant. Would like it to be Raymond, but i don't see it happening.

If Grant gets sent down than i say so much for always earned, never given. Might as well change the montra to "always earned, never given unless you make too much to send to the minors"

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

If Grant gets sent down than i say so much for always earned, never given. Might as well change the montra to "always earned, never given unless you make too much to send to the minors"

Seriously?

"Always Earned Never Given =/= What Have You Done for Me Lately"

There are still realities to be considered because what happens when Grant struggles and you immediately bury him in Stockton? Thats not cool either because it engenders a culture of fear.

You send him back to Stockton while hes playing well, give him some things you want him to work on, tell him he did a great job and that hes high on the list of future callups.

I never understand this ceteris paribus thinking that nothing else ever changes and everything else operates in a vaccuum.

But you're right we should keep Grant and waive Ferland because he got hurt. Thats the fair way to go right?

Man, I'm getting tired of people trampling on the ethos at slightest sign of change.

[Freeway]

Hiller was placed onto the IR retroactive to his injury, and he's not skating as far as I recall, so they only have 22 players on the roster (and an open spot for Ferland to fill.)

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Locke

Seriously?

"Always Earned Never Given =/= What Have You Done for Me Lately"

There are still realities to be considered because what happens when Grant struggles and you immediately bury him in Stockton? Thats not cool either because it engenders a culture of fear.

You send him back to Stockton while hes playing well, give him some things you want him to work on, tell him he did a great job and that hes high on the list of future callups.

I never understand this ceteris paribus thinking that nothing else ever changes and everything else operates in a vaccuum.

But you're right we should keep Grant and waive Ferland because he got hurt. Thats the fair way to go right?

Man, I'm getting tired of people trampling on the ethos at slightest sign of change.

Even you have to realize that there is a huge difference in Ferland getting hurt and Raymond not playing well enough to secure a place in 67 games as a Flame.

Raymond was kept out of the line-up in support of the ethos.. actually the cleanest example of establishing the aforementioned ethos. Now he has been bumped done farther in the pecking order to not being one of the top 14 forwards that the league limits the flames to having on their NHL roster.

Grant slumps or loses intensity... down he goes to be replaced by Granlund or Arnold or Raymond... who ever has earned the opportunity. A meritocracy is based on fear. Perform well and get rewarded. Someone getting rewarded means someone gets punished.


The general turn around in Flames performance and attitude came with Hamilton and Frolik having their minutes drastically cut to what they earned and can handle.



Hartley may have taken back control of his team rather than allocating ice time based on the contracts the GM has given out.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Hiller was placed onto the IR retroactive to his injury, and he's not skating as far as I recall, so they only have 22 players on the roster (and an open spot for Ferland to fill.)

The Flames site doesn't have Hiller listed on IR, and I can't find an assignment on prosportstransactions.com. Not saying you're wrong, I just can't find confirmation that Hiller is on IR.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

The Flames site doesn't have Hiller listed on IR, and I can't find an assignment on prosportstransactions.com. Not saying you're wrong, I just can't find confirmation that Hiller is on IR.

Here

http://flames.nhl.com/club/roster.htm

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Here

http://flames.nhl.com/club/roster.htm

And the Injury Report from the Flames site says he's not on the IR. So who knows?

[chubeyr1]

For those still complaining about Engellands contract! Is he overpaid? Absolutely.I like Engelland more than most around here. Era of the goon is gone, loved McGrattan but he is no longer an NHL player. Engelland is a tough sob who can take a regular shift. Yes I do hate all the icing plays he makes. I hated Chris Butler coughing up the puck all the time too. Yet Engelland can add so much more to the team if needed on any given night. Supposedly a great locker room presence too. Overpaid? Absolutely! Yet at the time of the signing the Flames were trying to reach the cap floor. Maybe we should of traded for Pronger or Horton lol!Treliving does not get a pass for this contract, nor does he get a pass for the Raymond Backlund Ramo and Stajan contracts. Yet to be honest who knew the Flames young guys would take roster spots and turn into stars? Stars we have to pay sooner than expected.Treliving had a solid plan, young guys upset that plan a year to early.

[sa226]

The fact that I have hardly noticed Engelland at all speaks volumes to his improved play.

I used to shudder when he and Smid hit the ice together.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Engelland has been playing like an NHL-level defenceman lately.

It's a nice change over last season.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Here

http://flames.nhl.com/club/roster.htm

Of course, that also says that Nakladal is still in Calgary.


FWIW, last night's game was the first since his injury where Hiller wasn't listed as a scratch on the roster sheet, so that would seem to indicate that he has been placed on the IR. He has already been out for the minimum of 7 days, so there's really no reason why they wouldn't put him on the IR.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Even you have to realize that there is a huge difference in Ferland getting hurt and Raymond not playing well enough to secure a place in 67 games as a Flame.

Raymond was kept out of the line-up in support of the ethos.. actually the cleanest example of establishing the aforementioned ethos. Now he has been bumped done farther in the pecking order to not being one of the top 14 forwards that the league limits the flames to having on their NHL roster.

Grant slumps or loses intensity... down he goes to be replaced by Granlund or Arnold or Raymond... who ever has earned the opportunity. A meritocracy is based on fear. Perform well and get rewarded. Someone getting rewarded means someone gets punished.

The general turn around in Flames performance and attitude came with Hamilton and Frolik having their minutes drastically cut to what they earned and can handle.

Hartley may have taken back control of his team rather than allocating ice time based on the contracts the GM has given out.

Come now Ricardo, even you have to realize that while teams need and want a culture, a culture of fear is counter-productive. I understand the reward/punishment deal but it cant be done through fear. That only gets you so far.

Fear =/= Merit.

Players arent afraid of losing their position, its very clear that they will lose their position if they dont perform. This isnt fear, fear is irrational, this is understanding.

So how about this:

Maybe Hartley understands how to use his players effectively, maybe Hartley understands that Grant is a centre and Raymond is a winger and while Grant is currently playing his position better than Raymond is playing his, Hartley doesnt believe that Grant can maintain that form or eclipse Raymond's paltry 23 points from last season, a herculean feat Grant has never managed.

Maybe Hartley understands the complexities of the situation while you just see:

Raymond = Not Good
Grant = Good Right Now, so far.

But you're right, we should launch Raymond into the sun and keep Grant. To hell with Granlund and anyone else that might deserve a callup based on their performance, they're not here and dont fit into your narrow perspective and ergo they dont count.

Always Earned, Never Given or the Universe is a LIE!!

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Locke

Seriously?

"Always Earned Never Given =/= What Have You Done for Me Lately"

There are still realities to be considered because what happens when Grant struggles and you immediately bury him in Stockton? Thats not cool either because it engenders a culture of fear.

You send him back to Stockton while hes playing well, give him some things you want him to work on, tell him he did a great job and that hes high on the list of future callups.

I never understand this ceteris paribus thinking that nothing else ever changes and everything else operates in a vaccuum.

But you're right we should keep Grant and waive Ferland because he got hurt. Thats the fair way to go right?

Man, I'm getting tired of people trampling on the ethos at slightest sign of change.

Yeah some people take that little slogan a little too literally.

It's still a league with big guaranteed contracts and a team heavy with vets at all positions.

When you're burying money in the A there's also the question of ownership and if they will actually let management bury a contract like Raymond's in Stockton.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by getbak

Of course, that also says that Nakladal is still in Calgary.


FWIW, last night's game was the first since his injury where Hiller wasn't listed as a scratch on the roster sheet, so that would seem to indicate that he has been placed on the IR. He has already been out for the minimum of 7 days, so there's really no reason why they wouldn't put him on the IR.

Yeah, the Flames site has never been noted for accuracy or being up to date but just the fact that they've bothered to list Hiller as being on the Injury Reserve, says something.

[Freeway]

Hiller was listed on the IR in yesterday's official game notes and on the official roster sheet he's no longer listed as a scratch.

[buyakasha]

Hartley and the coaching staff all see offensive upside to Ferland, an upside that we've seen very minimal of. I feel like if he were to work on that it'd be best for him to do that in the AHL with more minutes. Only problem is linemates though. Would he learn more with the big boys and Hartley? Or would it be more beneficial to strictly focus on offense in the A with more minutes?

EDIT: Ah yes, waivers. I guess this would be hypothetical if anyone would like to reply their thoughts.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by buyakasha

Hartley and the coaching staff all see offensive upside to Ferland, an upside that we've seen very minimal of. I feel like if he were to work on that it'd be best for him to do that in the AHL with more minutes. Only problem is linemates though. Would he learn more with the big boys and Hartley? Or would it be more beneficial to strictly focus on offense in the A with more minutes?

He'd have to clear waivers to get sent down so going to AHL is not an option. He would get claimed.