Ranking the Canadian Teams - Page 5 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

dammage79 · 08-27-2015, 09:51 AM

1. Calgary
2. Montreal
3. Winnipeg
4. Ottawa
5. Edmonton
6. Vancouver
7. Toronto

Top 4 are pretty easy to sort out. The forwards separate CGY from WPG. And MTL has Price, enough said there.

It got muddy for the bottom 3. I had to put EDM at 5. Out of the three remaining teams they did the most positive moves this offseason while Vancouver got worse and Toronto despite hiring and All-Star executive group to run the team, didn't really do much other than off load Kessel. Toronto will be the worst team this year.

As I am writing this I'm not sure why I haven't put Vancouver at the bottom, the more I think about it, the more I remember they really did nothing but get worse in their trades. Except for the addition of Sutter. But that move only treads water from where they were at before the trade. Damn, they're going to be so bad this year.

Enoch Root · 08-27-2015, 10:10 AM

I don't think you can put Vancouver last. Yes, they are trending in the wrong direction, but they still have the Sedins.

Toronto has nothing.

And Oilers are trending up, or at least are potentially trending up. So you can give them the benefit of the doubt and put them ahead of Vancouver, IMO.

Calgary4LIfe · 08-27-2015, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

Okay lets just take this one point at a time, objectively:Objectively? Hardly but OK

Old boys club: yep, both lowe and Mactavish are still within the organization, so glad they have finally put that to rest...Chirelli built a pretty darn good team in Boston No, he inherited a pretty good team in Boston, and he traded away a couple of young high end talented players just entering their prime, and put his team in cap hell. He did win the cup, so at least he can manage a winner well enough to win a cup, but he did not put that team together.

Coach: wait and see on how he does but you are casually ignoring the fact that he got let go by SJ for a reason (not winning). Sharks seem to win a lot over the last decade They have been a highly skilled team from the goalie through defence through their forward corps. Arguably a very deep team. They falter and haven't won anything except regular season titles. There are definite question marks based on the Sharks' lack of success based on their team makeup over those years.

Hall: Scores goals, injury prone, worst hockey sense I've ever watched out of an "elite LW" Hall is Elite, I'm sorry you can't see that. Two Ppg seasons before he's 23... Hall is a defensive blackhole, and a poor leader based on his play on ice. He has absolutely terrible defensive IQ - when he actually tries to play defensively. Ovie bought-in last year on team-defence, but even when he didn't, at least brought a much more intelligent game and some nasty physical play. Hall gets demolished often with his lack of situational awareness, offers little in the way of defence, and I just can't see him lasting in this league if he doesn't change his game. He is fast, he has a great shot, and he has good hands to make plays. If he had an actual brain, I would wholeheartedly agree.

McGeneration: Past Generational talents: Tavares, Stamkos, Crosby, Mackinnon list goes on. He likely will be good, but I honestly have no clue what Generational means anymore. Those are all damn good players. Able to carry their team all by themself Yep, but how many of them have Stanley Cups? McDavid (IMO) is the real deal, but there is still no guarantee of any team success.

Eberle: Still living off his World Jr. success and his epic dangle against ian white. Terrible defensively, doesn't work very hard for a soft player, expects his "soft mitts" and "sick celeys" to make noise for him. He is a 60 point player check his stats. I don't like him, but he scores like a first line player. 60pt player that offers little else. Not a guy I would want on the Flames for free (and not hyperbole). He is without a doubt part of the problem on the Oilers, not a solution. Him and Hall are the big reasons why Edmonton sucks, even with his 60pts. Selfish, undersized, takes numerous shifts off, lazy on the backcheck - but puts up decent (not spectacular) numbers. Yeah, I don't like his game at all.

RNH: Strong skater, skilled hockey player, competes hard on both sides of the puck. Too soft a game to ever be a true #1 in the tough, heavy western conference.There are a lot of teams that would give their left nut for him to crater their top line. Agreed here. RNH is the real deal, and a heck of a player that should only get better.

Yak: worst +/- 2 years running (i believe). nuff said. Nose for the net, bust potential, but he can score for a second line winger for sure I may be the only one, but I much prefer Yakupov over Eberle if I had to choose, and I expect Yak to improve on his numbers and overall game with a solid coach.

Pouliot: Career stats padded due to playing with Stamkos. Bottom six winger, he is really just a bigger bodied Mason Raymond. He's better than Raymond , but he's decent enough to play second line. But he's not hot garbage. Hot garbage? No. Over-priced? Yes.

Daisaitl: Lets see how he recovers from being thrown into the lions den last season. You obviously didn't watch the memorial cup. Well, there isn't a question he isn't a very good junior player, but junior success does not guarantee NHL success. I do think he is going to be very good - his lack of footspeed (which isn't that horrible) is more than compensated by his high IQ and skill-level. He may take a few seasons to adapt, but he should end up as a very good player (as long as his development isn't crushed - but MacLellan should be good for him).

Give it a rest bud, nobody is fearful of the Oilers forwards, until the oilers forwards decide to do something about it.

I don't like the Oilers, but if your take off the Flames glasses you'd see that their top six looks very good. They have a lot of warts, but they will be able to score goals.

Why do you think they are able to score goals? They didn't last year. What has changed? Tough to score goals when you get hemmed in your own zone and have players (again, Hall and Eberle) with horrible defensive acumen AND effort to help support the (lower quality) defencemen.

The Oilers top 6 has (without question) some great skill, but they haven't exactly been coming through, have they? So no, it isn't a given that they will be able to score goals - they haven't been able to, and McDavid by himself isn't going to suddenly change them from one of the LOWEST SCORING TEAMS in the NHL into one of the highest scoring teams. The potential is there for them to be a high-scoring team, and you would anticipate that MacLellan is a better coach and will be able to provide them with a better system, but you too easily disregard the fact that they simply haven't done it yet, and don't seem to have the culture and the effort level to do what it takes to become that team.

Warts are sometimes things that you can't fix, and I think you are sugar-coating it. Their warts are just as relevant as their strengths. It could very well be that they will have to trade some of their 'high powered offence' for capable defencemen in order to actually build any semblance of a decent team.

CorsiHockeyLeague · 08-27-2015, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GGG

Why Vancouver over Calgary for any given day? Calgary just beat them in 6 games, and improved the team in the off season.

Probably six of one, half a dozen of the other in terms of who wins, but I don't put much stock in the results of playoff series as some sort of gauge as to who will win a future game. I'm just going based on the rosters. Might as well flip a coin, I suppose, but as completely doomed as that team is they're decently constructed for October.

By the end of the year they'll likely have lost Hamhuis and Vrbata, (and possibly one or more of the other depth pieces there like Higgins, Hansen, Burrows etc) and that'll be all she wrote for the Sedin era, so it's a completely moot point for them whether they win, say, the first meeting with the flames on HNIC this year.

Enoch Root, I think you can put them last organizationally because the Sedins are a meaningless asset for the team. They aren't going to win, so what good does having the Sedins do other than some entertainment value? Toronto has Nylander and Marner, among others; they have a shot at a decent future and management looks much more competent than a few years ago.

Enoch Root · 08-27-2015, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Probably six of one, half a dozen of the other in terms of who wins, but I don't put much stock in the results of playoff series as some sort of gauge as to who will win a future game. I'm just going based on the rosters. Might as well flip a coin, I suppose, but as completely doomed as that team is they're decently constructed for October.

By the end of the year they'll likely have lost Hamhuis and Vrbata, (and possibly one or more of the other depth pieces there like Higgins, Hansen, Burrows etc) and that'll be all she wrote for the Sedin era, so it's a completely moot point for them whether they win, say, the first meeting with the flames on HNIC this year.

Enoch Root, I think you can put them last organizationally because the Sedins are a meaningless asset for the team. They aren't going to win, so what good does having the Sedins do other than some entertainment value? Toronto has Nylander and Marner, among others; they have a shot at a decent future and management looks much more competent than a few years ago.

My impression was that we were ranking the teams for this season (kind of a power ranking thing).

If you want to talk about who has the brightest future, then I agree, Vancouver should be last.

Imported_Aussie · 08-27-2015, 11:07 AM

Montreal, Calgary and Winnipeg are all close. They are the only 3 with a shot at playoffs IMO (sorry Ottawa) but Winnipeg is in the most danger - toughest division and a question mark in goal. Calgary and Winnipeg may not be that far apart, but whereas Calgary is likely within the top 3 seeds in their division, Winnipeg is a wildcard/bubble team.
Montreal also benefits from a comparatively weak division, where they should finish no lower than 3rd.
I would take Calgary over Montreal in a 7 game series, due to their depth and ability to roll out 3 elite defencemen to win matchups, and I can't count on Winnipeg to make the playoffs, so I have to go for Calgary

Matata · 08-27-2015, 11:20 AM

Went with the peg, I think they had the best Canadian team last year and should have a few graduates from their incredible prospect pool beefing them up. My heart says it's the flames, but I can't tell if that's homer glasses or not.

theslymonkey · 08-27-2015, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Why do you think they are able to score goals? They didn't last year. What has changed? Tough to score goals when you get hemmed in your own zone and have players (again, Hall and Eberle) with horrible defensive acumen AND effort to help support the (lower quality) defencemen.

The Oilers top 6 has (without question) some great skill, but they haven't exactly been coming through, have they? So no, it isn't a given that they will be able to score goals - they haven't been able to, and McDavid by himself isn't going to suddenly change them from one of the LOWEST SCORING TEAMS in the NHL into one of the highest scoring teams. The potential is there for them to be a high-scoring team, and you would anticipate that MacLellan is a better coach and will be able to provide them with a better system, but you too easily disregard the fact that they simply haven't done it yet, and don't seem to have the culture and the effort level to do what it takes to become that team.

Warts are sometimes things that you can't fix, and I think you are sugar-coating it. Their warts are just as relevant as their strengths. It could very well be that they will have to trade some of their 'high powered offence' for capable defencemen in order to actually build any semblance of a decent team.

This is just it. I don't think the Oilers have got better. I think they're going to struggle as much as last year. But that's because of their lack of D and goaltending. Without solid puck moving D, the forwards don't score. Flames are deep in puck movers. So are the Hawks, Preds, Ducks, Kings... thats why they are winning.

But I'm not arguing that. I am saying to disregard the Oilers one strength, Forward Skill, is short sighted. Bring the Oilers top 6 over to the Flames and let Hartley kick their asses, and I think the Flames score even more goals.
Does that make us better, No.
Do the Flames win more games, No.
Does the sense of "Team" increase with those inbreeds on our team, No.
But I think the goal scoring could/would be greater.

I think the Flames team build is modeled after the Hawks, which is awesome. I think the Flames have the make up of a future power house. But if the Oilers had Hamilton and few better pieces on the back end. We would all be a little more afraid of their offensive weapons.

ricardodw · 08-27-2015, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Voted Montreal as the top Canadian Team, simply because they feast in the East.

Calgary has Kings, Sharks and Ducks to contend with in their own division, plus the Central which is by far the toughest division. Can't put Winnipeg in there either, because they are in the Central.

Now, which team is better? I would say Calgary is better than Montreal, and Calgary and Winnipeg are in a pretty close spot relative to one another. Calgary by a hair as the best Canadian Team, but Montreal will get the most points.

Edit:

Ranking based on Points
Montreal
Calgary
Ottawa
Winnipeg
Vancouver

Edmonton
Toronto

Ranking Based on actual team strength:
Calgary
Winnipeg

Montreal
Ottawa

Vancouver

Edmonton
Toronto

Just based on last year the Flames, Canucks and Ducks had inflated points because they played a lot of their Games against the Oilers / Yotes.

Pretty simple to rank divisions.

Average point of teams in the Division:

Central 99.4
Metropolitan : 91.8
Atlantic: 90.8
Pacific: 87

Pretty sure that it wouldn't take a lot of mathematics to show that that the 2014-15 Flames and Canucks do not make the Playoffs if either team was in the Central and Dallas and Colorado do make the playoffs playing out of the Pacific.

That was last year. If Edmonton and/or Arizona were to move into the ranks of the competitive teams then the Flames have to play a lot better to maintain their 97 pts.

The other thing that both the Jets and Flames and Predators have to contend with is being a playoff team rather than a team in the McDavid lottery as they were at the start of last year. A lot less backup goalies this coming season.

Fire of the Phoenix · 08-27-2015, 11:43 AM

Yes Montreal has Price, who is amazing, but I don't see how that fact can make Montreal Canada's best team. Without Price, that team is 15th (or so) in the league. I realize goaltending is a part of the team, but when the rest of the team is so inadequate that you have to rely on Price having one of the best seasons ever by a goalie to have success, you don't have a good team. Look what happened to them in the playoffs when Price's play dipped... they got absolutely smoked. If we had Price last year, we probably get an extra 10-15 points.

My ranking

1A) Winnipeg
1B) Calgary

*A lot to like about both teams, both now and going forward. Calgary is faster, Winnipeg is bigger, both teams have top 5-7 D in the league. Goaltending is a sore spot for both teams, but both have phenoms on the way. Both teams have young, emerging top talent at forward. I see Winnipeg developing into more of a rival for us than Edm or Van in the next few years as I think there is a great chance we meet in the playoffs sooner than those other two sad sacks.

2A) Ottawa
2B) Montreal

*These two teams are very close, I prefer Ottawa's D. I like Karlsson better than Subban, though 2-7 is reasonably close I still give Ott the edge. I prefer their F group as well as it seems younger, with more emerging talent. I like Pacioretti, Gallagher and Galchenyuk for the Habs but not much else in comparison the the Sens who just seem deeper, younger and more talented up front. The x factor for Ott is Ryan, if he can get his game back, Ott is looking good up front. Goaltending is the only thing that makes this close as Price is a god and might even will a team like Edmonton to an 75-80 point season last year. With no Price, I think Montreal is closer to Vancouver's level than Ottawa's.

5) Vancouver
6) Edmonton

*Things look very bleak for Vancouver, now and going forward. As soon as next season, they could be passed by the Oilers (that means they're bad). For now though I give them the edge over the Oilers even though Edmonton is more talented up front and goaltending is likely a wash. Vancouver's forwards actually know what their own zone looks like, so if I was trying to make the playoffs just for next year, I would take their group. Going forward, if the Oilers forwards ever figure things out, this will obviously change. I'm not holding my breath though. The Canucks have the better D, but it is still just average whereas the Oilers are abysmal in that area. Tanev/Edler is an OK top pairing but would be much better suited to the second pairing. Hamhuis is pretty good, but after that they aren't so hot. One lengthy injury to their top 3 and their season is over. Edmonton's D is like the land of misfit toys, just laughable considering how many YEARS they have had to fix this.

7) Toronto

*They're pretty, pretty, pretty... bad. Maybe they get 60 points next year, maybe not. With their luck they will draft 3rd with 52 points while the Oilers add Mathews with 75 points.

Walter Reed · 08-28-2015, 05:51 PM

Winnipeg
Calgary
Montreal
Ottawa
Edmonton
Vancouver
Toronto

Erick Estrada · 08-28-2015, 06:18 PM

Montreal has the advantage of playing in the Eastern Conference and should be able to grind their way to being the top Canadian team. However it all rests on the shoulders of one player and if Price gets injured for significant time or has a down year just making the playoffs would be in doubt for them. The Leafs roster is awful and I don't expect Babcock to work much magic next season as they should be last.

Reggie Dunlop · 08-28-2015, 06:46 PM

No finer team in all the land,

The Flaming C is the winning brand.

Party Elephant · 08-29-2015, 12:17 AM

I don't think the poll should have Edmonton and Toronto as options.

Reggie Dunlop · 08-29-2015, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Party Elephant

I don't think the poll should have Edmonton and Toronto as options.

Both are rank.

heep223 · 08-29-2015, 04:46 PM

Is Toronto going to win a game this year? I guess they'll probably beat the Coyotes but they may go 2-80-0.

Good thing they'll be riding high after the Jays win the World Series, to get them through the hockey season.