[Signing] Flyers sign Voracek to multi-year extension (8 yrs, $8.25 mil AAV)

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

But again, they didn't make the playoffs with him in the lineup, so exactly how is it "just plain stupid"?

2 out of the last 3 years.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

But again, they didn't make the playoffs with him in the lineup, so exactly how is it "just plain stupid"?

Well, in fairness, it is a team game.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

But again, they didn't make the playoffs with him in the lineup, so exactly how is it "just plain stupid"?

As Locke said its a team game.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Based off the current market, 6X6 deals are not outlandish for top line players and if we can lock up Monahan and Gaudreau to those deals, I'd jump at the opportunity. The cap keeps rising and in 3 years time, 2nd line players like Frolik and Beleskey will be pulling in $6M. We'll be sitting pretty if we have our 1st liners locked in at $6M per year.

Totally agree with what you are saying except am far more concerned with team success. If Monahan and Gaudreau have the same numbers and the Flames are out of the playoff race by the trading deadline then I (and the Flames management) have to look at them and see if they are the guys to carry the flames to a SC?

At that time the Flames should offer 2 years by 3-4M. and if someone wants to pay them 6x6 give us a 1st 2nd and 3rd or a couple of firsts then we have to consider whether to match or extend the rebuild.

I have had a Life time full of Jokinens and Bouwmeesters - nice guys , talented players but not going to ever be a key part of a SC run.


When does Edmonton cash in on their locking down their top players 6x6?

[Enoch Root]

Yes, it's a team game. That's part of the point. That is why you have to be mindful of how much you pay to who.

(I'm not saying Voracek isn't a valuable player, I was simply saying that what Ricardodw said had some validity)

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Locke

No, but we're also good up front and need our defence corps.

Good up front? Our #1 RW after this season is penciled in as Michal Frolik. Voracek is a huge upgrade on Frolik and less than 4M more expensive.


It not a positional depth issue.... it is the fact that Brodie and Hamilton are better hockey players and the Flames have a better chance for team success with them in the line-up than Voracek.

[East Coast Flame]

Have you people seen the black hole that is the Flyers roster? It is absolutely mental thinking Giroux and Voracek are the reason they didn't make the playoffs. Good lord.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Good up front? Our #1 RW after this season is penciled in as Michal Frolik. .

Even for you that's some generous twisting of the facts.

"After next season"? Who cares. He's our 2nd line RW right now, currently, in reality. He might still be next year.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, it's a team game. That's part of the point. That is why you have to be mindful of how much you pay to who.

(I'm not saying Voracek isn't a valuable player, I was simply saying that what Ricardodw said had some validity)

While true, all I'm saying is that each organization has to operate and manage their strengths and weaknesses.

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Good up front? Our #1 RW after this season is penciled in as Michal Frolik. Voracek is a huge upgrade on Frolik and less than 4M more expensive.

It not a positional depth issue.... it is the fact that Brodie and Hamilton are better hockey players and the Flames have a better chance for team success with them in the line-up than Voracek.

Very true, the Flames are not solid at RW. Fair enough, but I'd live with weak RW depth if it meant that my top 4-5 Dmen were somewhere between solid and World Class.

Build from the back.

Look at Philly right now, they've got offensive talent, they've even got a goalie posting some solid numbers, but they are wandering the desert in defence. It is terribad.

I like being able to look at our goaltending and defence and say: If everyone plays the way they can and we can retain them, thats set. Sure, Frolik is our #1 RW, but we can deal with that later.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by East Coast Flame

Have you people seen the black hole that is the Flyers roster? It is absolutely mental thinking Giroux and Voracek are the reason they didn't make the playoffs. Good lord.

That is not at all what was said

It's a team game. With the cap, there are only so many chips to spend. IT's not just about how good the player is, it's also about whether they are good value for the money. If you spend too much on one player, there isn't enough for other holes on the team.

Now I, (for one) wasn't arguing that Voracek is poor value at $8.25M. That was ricardodw's fight. I was simply supporting the fact that it is a valid question to ask.

But that does not, in any way, imply it's his fault they didn't make the playoffs.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

That is not at all what was said

It's a team game. With the cap, there are only so many chips to spend. IT's not just about how good the player is, it's also about whether they are good value for the money. If you spend too much on one player, there isn't enough for other holes on the team.

Now I, (for one) wasn't arguing that Voracek is poor value at $8.25M. That was ricardodw's fight. I was simply supporting the fact that it is a valid question to ask.

But that does not, in any way, imply it's his fault they didn't make the playoffs.

Its tough to determine whether hes worth that cash or not, determining value is almost strictly an after-the-fact analysis. If he scores 100 points next year is he worth it? What if he gets hurt?

The possibilities are endless. I'll agree thats its a valid question to ask, but I personally think its a good deal that will serve Philly well in the future so long as his play doesnt fall off a cliff.

[East Coast Flame]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

That is not at all what was said

It's a team game. With the cap, there are only so many chips to spend. IT's not just about how good the player is, it's also about whether they are good value for the money. If you spend too much on one player, there isn't enough for other holes on the team.

Now I, (for one) wasn't arguing that Voracek is poor value at $8.25M. That was ricardodw's fight. I was simply supporting the fact that it is a valid question to ask.

But that does not, in any way, imply it's his fault they didn't make the playoffs.

Sure, but its not paying Voracek and Giroux that $8mil each that is going to keep them out of the playoffs. It's paying Lecavalier $4.5mil for 3(!) more years and someone named Andrew MacDonald $5mil for 5(!!!!!) more years. The remaining "chips" in the Flyers are the problem, not how they spend at the top end. Overpaying for marginal to bad talent is what is sinking them.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by East Coast Flame

Sure, but its not paying Voracek and Giroux that $8mil each that is going to keep them out of the playoffs. It's paying Lecavalier $4.5mil for 3(!) more years and someone named Andrew MacDonald $5mil for 5(!!!!!) more years. The remaining "chips" in the Flyers are the problem, not how they spend at the top end. Overpaying for marginal to bad talent is what is sinking them.

I completely agree that there are some horrible contracts on that team.

It's still a valid question (even if the answer is that he is in fact worth the money)

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Good up front? Our #1 RW after this season is penciled in as Michal Frolik.

And currently, we are "penciled in" to lose our captain after this season too

[Da_Chief]

Good deal for both sides. He's just hitting his prime, him and Giroux are a dominant duo.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Totally agree with what you are saying except am far more concerned with team success. If Monahan and Gaudreau have the same numbers and the Flames are out of the playoff race by the trading deadline then I (and the Flames management) have to look at them and see if they are the guys to carry the flames to a SC?

Wait, what? Are you saying if the Flames are not in the race by the trade deadline you'd look at trading those two? The young guys still learning the professional game?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Wait, what? Are you saying if the Flames are not in the race by the trade deadline you'd look at trading those two? The young guys still learning the professional game?

No I am saying that I am not willing to declare them the top forward on the hockey team for the next 6 years.

Pay them as learners not as top players on the team and in the league.

Instead of a 6x6 they would be looking at a prove that they can be winners 2 year deal 3.5 x 2. The only thing is that some desperate team might offer sheet them and then the Flames would have to decide to match or take the draft picks.

[jemjey]

Ok deal. Really good player. Money is good, term is long.

Disagree with the "if you can't carry a horrible roster to the playoffs, then you aren't an impact player/SC winner/etc" reasoning.

[Strange Brew]

Worthwhile questions being asked here. Voracek is a great player but you can only have 1 or 2 $8 million players on your team. History has shown those contracts can be hard to trade (although Phil Kessel says hi) so is he one of the leaders that can take you to the Cup? My initial reaction is that most teams would take Voracek and Giroux as their 2 top forwards.

As for Johnny and Monahan, this season will be essential to determine their contract value. Johnny in particular has exactly one pro year so let's not pencil him in for $6 million until we see how he follows it up. In my view Johnny's next contract needs to account for the fact he essentially has one less year than players like Monahan.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Worthwhile questions being asked here. Voracek is a great player but you can only have 1 or 2 $8 million players on your team. History has shown those contracts can be hard to trade (although Phil Kessel says hi) so is he one of the leaders that can take you to the Cup? My initial reaction is that most teams would take Voracek and Giroux as their 2 top forwards.

As for Johnny and Monahan, this season will be essential to determine their contract value. Johnny in particular has exactly one pro year so let's not pencil him in for $6 million until we see how he follows it up. In my view Johnny's next contract needs to account for the fact he essentially has one less year than players like Monahan.

Phil Kessel says, hi eat $8.4M of my contract and then yes I'm tradeable