Who Do You Think Will Unexpectedly Make The Team Next Year?

[ricardodw]

Hunter Smith and Kanzig will be closer than expected.

Ferland only had 67 AHL games. and Bouma a total of 92 AHL games.

Bouma had 16 NHL games in 2010-11 Drafted in 2008.


Kanzig was drafted in 2013.

Can't teach size and there is no conversion required to a stay-at-home d-man unlike Wotherspoon who scored a lot as a 20 year old junior.

Kanzig might have done better against the Ducks as his 250-lbs of muscle would have been concentrated on breaking the cycle and putting some sacrifice into the Duck's puck control.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Hunter Smith and Kanzig will be closer than expected.

Ferland only had 67 AHL games. and Bouma a total of 92 AHL games.

Bouma had 16 NHL games in 2010-11 Drafted in 2008.


Kanzig was drafted in 2013.

Can't teach size and there is no conversion required to a stay-at-home d-man unlike Wotherspoon who scored a lot as a 20 year old junior.

Kanzig might have done better against the Ducks as his 250-lbs of muscle would have been concentrated on breaking the cycle and putting some sacrifice into the Duck's puck control.

Unless his skating improved drastically I don't think Kanzig is close at all.

[dammage79]

Oh Hudler's on CP's trade block again?
Yeah, okay.

Career year, major cog in the locker room, teaching the kids the right way on the ice etc etc etc...

Sell high! Sell high Sell High!!

The notion is as stupid as Cammy for Drouin.

Trading Hudler makes the team worse. Name one player you could realistically get that could do what Hudler does if you were to trade Hudler for him...

Define your parameters too, cap strapped team with a big contract looking to shave some dollars? Name that player that a team would move said player for Hudler...

How about CGY's parameters for moving Hudler? Would have to be younger, more term on his contract, likely more cap hit. Which team on the cusp has a comparable or better player that they would give up for Hudler? Why would they if that player was younger?

Trading Hudler for draft picks? Dumb dumb dumb.

[HartAttack]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Oh Hudler's on CP's trade block again?
Yeah, okay.

Career year, major cog in the locker room, teaching the kids the right way on the ice etc etc etc...

Sell high! Sell high Sell High!!

The notion is as stupid as Cammy for Drouin.

Trading Hudler makes the team worse. Name one player you could realistically get that could do what Hudler does if you were to trade Hudler for him...

Define your parameters too, cap strapped team with a big contract looking to shave some dollars? Name that player that a team would move said player for Hudler...

How about CGY's parameters for moving Hudler? Would have to be younger, more term on his contract, likely more cap hit. Which team on the cusp has a comparable or better player that they would give up for Hudler? Why would they if that player was younger?

Trading Hudler for draft picks? Dumb dumb dumb.

Some people love the notion of selling current NHL'ers, to believe in the 'what if' and 'maybe one day' hype mentality. I totally agree with you - it makes ZERO sense to trade Hudler, for all the reasons you listed above.

This is the same portion of CP that would like to see Wolf, Cervenka, and that Czech UFA we just signed to be in the opening day lineup.

I don't understand the mentality to be honest... You're supposed to get rid of your BAD players and acquire more GOOD ones, not the other way around. #armchairGM

[EldrickOnIce]

^ fair enough.
And what contract do you sign Hudler to next off season? A deal like Cammalleri got from NJ, only more - because 5yrs x 6m is what he will be looking for, and get as a UFA, I'm guessing.
Are you prepared to make that term and dollar commitment to Hudler?

[hockey.modern]

Hudler may start to decline on-ice but his presence in the development of the prospects he brings is something you don't find very often. keep him.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

^ fair enough.
And what contract do you sign Hudler to next off season? A deal like Cammalleri got from NJ, only more - because 5yrs x 6m is what he will be looking for, and get as a UFA, I'm guessing.
Are you prepared to make that term and dollar commitment to Hudler?

That's a whole different discussion though.

Next season is next season. If he has another year like this one, he'll probably want a deal like Cammalleri's and the Flames might not be willing to give it to him, but if the circumstances are right, they might give it to him. He has a lot of intangibles, and his work with the young guys has been great.

Hudler is exactly the type of player teams overpay for at the deadline, so you hang on to him and one of two things happen: 1. The Flames are a playoff team and they don't need to go to the trade market and overpay for a Hudler-type player because they already have him. or 2. The Flames are out of the playoff picture, and teams will be offering high-quality picks/prospects in exchange for him at the deadline.


There is no reason to think about trading Hudler before next year's deadline unless a team is willing to greatly overpay.

[Badgers Nose]

Safe bets would be Agostino or Poirier.

I think Hunter Smith might be a nice surprise next year. His development curve is impressive, he fills a major need on the team. He is willng to do anything to succeed and works hard.

Not sure he will make the team outright (probably not) but I could see him being next year's Granlund. He will fill the 4th line spot when there are injuries (giving the usual 4th line RW a chance to move up). He'll be anothe fan favorite player in a year or two.

I think Kanzig cracks the team when he is 25 or 26. Late bloomer. He needs a lot of work from what I have seen. But he has nice potential.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Oh Hudler's on CP's trade block again?
Yeah, okay.

Career year, major cog in the locker room, teaching the kids the right way on the ice etc etc etc...

Sell high! Sell high Sell High!!

The notion is as stupid as Cammy for Drouin.

Trading Hudler makes the team worse. Name one player you could realistically get that could do what Hudler does if you were to trade Hudler for him...

Define your parameters too, cap strapped team with a big contract looking to shave some dollars? Name that player that a team would move said player for Hudler...

How about CGY's parameters for moving Hudler? Would have to be younger, more term on his contract, likely more cap hit. Which team on the cusp has a comparable or better player that they would give up for Hudler? Why would they if that player was younger?

Trading Hudler for draft picks? Dumb dumb dumb.

Ok this is a sensitive topic for you. I get it.

First off it's not as stupid as Cammalleri for Drouin because I didn't say who you deal Hudler for.

If he had three years left at $4M I don't deal him. But he has 1 year left and will want a monster deal after that, one that Calgary shouldn't give him. He deserves one, but not on a team that has a 19, 21 and 22 year old as a core. It doesn't make sense.

So assuming I'm right to this point, you can't keep him past the deadline and let him walk away if he has asset value. His return will help the youth more than a guy walking away as a UFA

It takes stones to make this move, but it tells the NHL the team is on its way but we're not over reacting to last season.

This team is being built for 2016-17, not next year.

You can't let that asset walk.

[chubeyr1]

Unexpected? How Vague!

To me a guy like Bill Arnold making the team out of camp. I expect him to be the replacement for Stajan or Backlund in a year or two so it would be unexpected if he won a job out of camp!

Really unexpected? Seiloff trains hard in the off season, comes into camp like a freight train. A full offseason not coming off of injury restores his career. Ends up on the second pairing!

[mile]

I would hold Hudler until at least the trade deadline, even if the return was less than what we would get now.

I'd like to see how our core guys are coming along by that point. If Monahan and Gaudreau have successfully taken the reins on offense and Hudler's role has been marginalized, or if he wants a contract the Flames shouldn't be paying - then he should be traded.

Right now, he's the key cog in the Flames forwards and his play has aided in the big steps Monahan and Gaudreau have taken this year. Not sure if a larger return at the draft compared to the deadline is worth potentially putting Monahan and Gaudreau as the only go to guys prematurely.

We want a team built for 2016-17 and beyond, but next year is also another key year for development and Hudler is crucial for that.

As for unexpected players who could make the team: Arnold, Agostino, Elson, Hathaway are ones have I think have a chance. Latter two could pull a Jooris.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

Really unexpected? Seiloff trains hard in the off season, comes into camp like a freight train. A full offseason not coming off of injury restores his career. Ends up on the second pairing!

Man that would be so awesome. Surely the universe owes him some good luck.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by mile

I would hold Hudler until at least the trade deadline, even if the return was less than what we would get now.

I'd like to see how our core guys are coming along by that point. If Monahan and Gaudreau have successfully taken the reins on offense and Hudler's role has been marginalized, or if he wants a contract the Flames shouldn't be paying - then he should be traded.

Right now, he's the key cog in the Flames forwards and his play has aided in the big steps Monahan and Gaudreau have taken this year. Not sure if a larger return at the draft compared to the deadline is worth potentially putting Monahan and Gaudreau as the only go to guys prematurely.

We want a team built for 2016-17 and beyond, but next year is also another key year for development and Hudler is crucial for that.

As for unexpected players who could make the team: Arnold, Agostino, Elson, Hathaway are ones have I think have a chance. Latter two could pull a Jooris.

Great post.

You've talked me into waiting until the deadline. Test the waters, don't move him at the draft unless you're blown away. Keep him for another year of development. Move him at the draft.

Bottom line a 5 year 35M deal would be a bad idea, so he has to go.

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Ok this is a sensitive topic for you. I get it.

First off it's not as stupid as Cammalleri for Drouin because I didn't say who you deal Hudler for.

If he had three years left at $4M I don't deal him. But he has 1 year left and will want a monster deal after that, one that Calgary shouldn't give him. He deserves one, but not on a team that has a 19, 21 and 22 year old as a core. It doesn't make sense.

So assuming I'm right to this point, you can't keep him past the deadline and let him walk away if he has asset value. His return will help the youth more than a guy walking away as a UFA

It takes stones to make this move, but it tells the NHL the team is on its way but we're not over reacting to last season.

This team is being built for 2016-17, not next year.

You can't let that asset walk.

This is all based off him wanting ridiculous money and term! If that is the case then yes we will need to trade him. Cant lose an asset with no return.

My point of view though is Hudler is a young Vet. He looks younger on the ice with our rookies. Just finished having a career year with no signs of slowing down. End of his contract he will be 32.

A 3 or 4 year contract if he performs great next season is not out of the question. As for salary? 6 million a year? Seriously, based off stats and other players in the league he has earned that pay check.

We cant keep dumping off vets cause sooner or later when it comes to needing a vet ufa to make us a true contender they will not sign here.

The conversation about Hudler is very similar to the conversation about Gio really. Both probably on the decline when we will be a contender. Both team leaders and major performers on the team.

CAmmy under performed for the flames and got a big salary. Hudler and Gio over performed at low salaries. Cammy wanted out, I don't think Gio and Hudler want out. Think we will resign both to 4 year contracts at less than market value.

[mile]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

This is all based off him wanting ridiculous money and term! If that is the case then yes we will need to trade him. Cant lose an asset with no return.

After a season in which he finished in the top 10 in scoring, there is very good reason to believe he would want a contract a core player should have. I don't see him as a core player though and wouldn't put him in the same wavelength as Gio, that's probably just me though.

[Enoch Root]

I love what Hudler has brought to this team. And I am NOT a 'trade the vets so the kids can play' guy.

However, Hudler is going to be looking for a big contract and will be 32/33 in the first year of that deal. As good as he has been for the Flames, neither his age nor his size fits with the rebuild.

Also, I will not be overly surprised when Gaudreau and Monahan make their next RW look good too (not taking anything away from what Hudler has done).

You can't trade all your vets. But the flip side is that you can't keep them all either. Sometimes you have to make tough choices, and Hudler would bring back a very nice return.

[Party Elephant]

I love how Cammy for Drouin is the CP benchmark for silly trades.

[dammage79]

Hudler is not the guy we should be talking about. I find him to be an essential vet moving forward. Up in the rarified air that a lot of others hold Giordano in. IMO, without those two the culture would not be set. Gio is the key piece of the leadership core but I'll argue that Hudler is not that far behind.

It's remarkable how easy it is for the collective mind set here to put Gio up on a well deserved pedestal and have a whole thread dedicated to the ridiculous sums of money and years his next contract is going to be but is so eager to knock Hudlers off of his even though he's brought an arguably equal big element to this team.

I stand by my previous remarks that talking about trading Hudler is stupid. Even the trade Gio conversations that have popped up are ridiculous.

Blows my mind man. Just blows my mind.

[Vinny01]

Gio will be retained late into his 30's at a very high cap hit and I think we all understand and accept that is what needs to be done. Hudler on the other hand at 32/33 should not be signed to a long term $5M + deal.

He has been beyond what I could have imagined coming here mentoring our young kids and finishing 8th in league scoring. He is a player I lose for nothing before overpaying if I am the Flames.

The one thing the Flames need to avoid is overpaying the vets as their contracts expire.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Hudler is not the guy we should be talking about. I find him to be an essential vet moving forward. Up in the rarified air that a lot of others hold Giordano in. IMO, without those two the culture would not be set. Gio is the key piece of the leadership core but I'll argue that Hudler is not that far behind.

It's remarkable how easy it is for the collective mind set here to put Gio up on a well deserved pedestal and have a whole thread dedicated to the ridiculous sums of money and years his next contract is going to be but is so eager to knock Hudlers off of his even though he's brought an arguably equal big element to this team.

I stand by my previous remarks that talking about trading Hudler is stupid. Even the trade Gio conversations that have popped up are ridiculous.

Blows my mind man. Just blows my mind.

I don't discount Hudler's contributions to this team in the slightest.

But I am concerned with the team 3 years from now, not this year. Giordano will still be a key piece in 3 or 4 years, even if he isn't the #1 guy anymore.

However, I can't imagine a scenario where Hudler is still a top line guy in 3 years. And when he's not, he's just a small, 40 - 50 point winger - in other words, easily replaceable.

So let's get a good asset back for him while we can.

Leadership is very important - IMO, vastly under-rated. However, we don't just have Giordano, there is also Stajan (vastly under-rated) and Russell, who is really starting to step up.

In another year or two, Monahan is going to be a leader on this team.

It's a great room. And as great as Hudler has been, the team can carry on without him. Again, you can't keep everyone. The team still needs to get bigger and faster.