[News] Norris Finalists - Doughty, Karlsson and Subban

[Enoch Root]

I just think back to the Olympics, where Doughty and Weber were dominant on the greatest stage.

Meanwhile, Subban couldn't earn the coach's trust. And Karlsson was blatantly exposed and pretty much shut down offensively.

For me, that really separated the wheat from the chaff

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I just think back to the Olympics, where Doughty and Weber were dominant on the greatest stage.

Meanwhile, Subban couldn't earn the coach's trust. And Karlsson was blatantly exposed and pretty much shut down offensively.

For me, that really separated the wheat from the chaff

Of course, this isn't a lifetime achievement award, it's 2014-15. And by that criteria, Gio gets no consideration because he didn't make the team (I think he should have).

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I just think back to the Olympics, where Doughty and Weber were dominant on the greatest stage.

Meanwhile, Subban couldn't earn the coach's trust. And Karlsson was blatantly exposed and pretty much shut down offensively.

For me, that really separated the wheat from the chaff

I don't think you can judge Karlsson based on an international tournament. You can't expect a team like Sweden to out-compete Canada. Of course he's easily shut down when all the attention is on him and one or two other Swedes.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Of course, this isn't a lifetime achievement award, it's 2014-15. And by that criteria, Gio gets no consideration because he didn't make the team (I think he should have).

Bob Mckenzie voted for Gio. That's all the recognition he needs.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

PK Subban I am not sold on however. This guy is a game changer, but often in a negative way. He takes dumb penalties against bigger teams. He gets caught pinching A LOT and at the worst times of the game it seems.

It's not 2012 anymore. Even the best defencemen in the league get caught occasionally, Subban is no exception, but he's learned to pick his spots and it happens far less often than it used to.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I just think back to the Olympics, where Doughty and Weber were dominant on the greatest stage.

Meanwhile, Subban couldn't earn the coach's trust. And Karlsson was blatantly exposed and pretty much shut down offensively.

For me, that really separated the wheat from the chaff

I'm pretty sure Karlsson was named the tournament's best defenceman.

[undercoverbrother]

Hell I am gonna say it.

Giordano should be on the ballot based on his stats alone.

61 GP 11-37-48 +13

Doughty

82 GP 7-39-46 +3


Even though Gio's season was cut short I think he is still the best d-man in the league.

[Red Menace]

I think Josi actually had a better year than Weber...my guess is that Doughty will actually win. A lot of great D-men this year, both Gio and Shattenkirk derailed by injury.
You could make a case for Carlson, Burns, Letang, Faulk and even Wideman

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Karlsson is seriously underrated here. "abysmal" in his own end? Jesus Christ.

Totally disagree. The guy is a rover and a force offensively, but a disaster in his own end. The fact that Sens fans say this too should tell you everything you need to know.

[Locke]

I think calling Karlsson 'abysmal' in his own end is a stretch, he isnt terrible but he isnt great either.

The Senators were a river hockey team, much of their offence was fueled by a fast transition out of the zone and banking on their goalie to be lights out.

Whaddya mean that type of game doesnt work in the playoffs?

Karlsson is a great player, but hes on offence first and defence second and hes not as complete a player as many other defencemen out there.

And now the Norris has basically become the Art Ross trophy for guys that arent forwards.

[BlackRedGold25]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I just think back to the Olympics, where Doughty and Weber were dominant on the greatest stage.

Meanwhile, Subban couldn't earn the coach's trust. And Karlsson was blatantly exposed and pretty much shut down offensively.

For me, that really separated the wheat from the chaff

There's a lot of ignorance in this thread but this is on a whole another level. This is even more ignorant than Kevin Lowe is incompetent.

At the Olympics Karlsson was named best defenceman of the tournament, tied for the tournament lead in points with Kessel and was not on the ice for a goal against.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold25

There's a lot of ignorance in this thread but this is on a whole another level. This is even more ignorant than Kevin Lowe is incompetent.

At the Olympics Karlsson was named best defenceman of the tournament, tied for the tournament lead in points with Kessel and was not on the ice for a goal against.

Yeah, just like hes being nominated for the Norris. Its exactly the same thing. He got lots of points ergo hes named best defencemen.

Its like people have completely forgotten the whole point of playing defence.

[DoubleK]

There is historically an 'east' bias to the awards. Not saying that it's right, but that's how it's been in the past.

[cannon7]

If the Norris trophy isn't an Art Ross for d-men, then Russell should be #1 on the nomination list. We all know why Subban is there and it has nothing to do with his play. I'm frankly sick of these stupid popularity contests, I would just as well drop all the subjective awards as they've become pretty much meaningless.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah, just like hes being nominated for the Norris. Its exactly the same thing. He got lots of points ergo hes named best defencemen.

Its like people have completely forgotten the whole point of playing defence.

Not that the Olympics have anything to do with his 2014-15 NHL season, but he wasn't on the ice for a goal against at the Olympics...

[Locke]

Originally Posted by cannon7

If the Norris trophy isn't an Art Ross for d-men, then Russell should be #1 on the nomination list. We all know why Subban is there and it has nothing to do with his play. I'm frankly sick of these stupid popularity contests, I would just as well drop all the subjective awards as they've become pretty much meaningless.

Yeah, the days of Pronger, Lidstrom, Niedermayer, Keith and Chara winning it are long dead, now you have to be this wheeling, dealing flashy forward behind the forwards to win it.

Originally Posted by codynw

Not that the Olympics have anything to do with his 2014-15 NHL season, but he wasn't on the ice for a goal against at the Olympics...

Great. So Sweden played 6 games and allowed 9 goals against in the typically high scoring affair that is the Olympics.

It must have been brutal on Karlsson keeping the powerhouses of Latvia, Switzerland and Slovenia off the scoresheet.

And 3 of those goals came against Canada in the final scored by Crosby, Toews and Kunitz, so obviously Karlsson wasnt being matched up against the top lines.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold25

There's a lot of ignorance in this thread but this is on a whole another level. This is even more ignorant than Kevin Lowe is incompetent.

At the Olympics Karlsson was named best defenceman of the tournament, tied for the tournament lead in points with Kessel and was not on the ice for a goal against.

Scoring points against weaker teams will get you those kinds of nominations.

In the game that counted, Doughty and Weber taught him a lesson.

But feel free to call people who aren't Sens fans ignorant because they don't share your homeristic view.

[IgiTang]

How Suter isn't nominated is beyond me. He was arguably the largest competition for Gio right before Gio got hurt. Now he's not even considered? Wtf is going on?

[codynw]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

How Suter isn't nominated is beyond me. He was arguably the largest competition for Gio right before Gio got hurt. Now he's not even considered? Wtf is going on?

Suter? I never heard anyone saying Suter was in the conversation this year. A couple months ago, it looked like Weber, Letang and Giordano were the favourites.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

How Suter isn't nominated is beyond me. He was arguably the largest competition for Gio right before Gio got hurt. Now he's not even considered? Wtf is going on?

His name is always "in the mix" but at the end of the day the voters don't watch enough Wild games to see how dominant he is at his position, and the easy option is to go with the guy who puts up points like a 1st line forward.

[Haplo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Scoring points against weaker teams will get you those kinds of nominations.

In the game that counted, Doughty and Weber taught him a lesson.

But feel free to call people who aren't Sens fans ignorant because they don't share your homeristic view.

Sorry but he is right. You obviously didn't watch any Swedish games except for the final game against Canada, where Sweden btw were missing Backstrom, Zetterberg and Sedin, i.e. didn't have one single elite center so didn't stand a chance against a stacked Canadian team. Saying "Karlsson was taught a lesson" is simply ignorant. I remember Karlsson got a lot of positive words here on CP by those who actually watched the games. He was a beast and by far the best player on the Swedish team.

Btw Ekman-Larsson was a scratch for the Swedish team for most of the tournament because of poor defensive play, so I'm doubting those that think he is a better D-man than Karlsson.

Edit: I would like to add that during the Olympics Nik Hjalmarsson said that Karlsson was probably the best D-man he had ever played with. Strong words for someone playing with Duncan Keith every day.