Retire At 30

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

The 10,000 is really extravagantly high though, all things considered, especially since in order to retire, one should have their house paid off and be clear of any significant debts.

If people are planning on jet setting during their retirement and travelling the world then the $10,000 would be accurate, however most people when they retire consolidate, travel less and require less living space, instead occupying their time with people, not things that matter to them. Granted this is based off the traditional model of people who retire when they are in their mid 60s.

I think that as it currently stands the 120,000 per year of retirement is an egregiously high number that makes any retirement seem impossible for 95% of the population, if not more... I would actually find it difficult to spend 120,000 per year at the current time and I am 30. Granted I also don't currently have children, so that changes the equation quite a bit

It's neither high nor low, it's $120,000/year. How people plan spending at retirement is their own guess/dream/estimate. Your guess is simply lower than this number at this stage of your life, that's all.

[polak]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Well yeah, I'm not talking about every week. Usually with my one friend I just borrow his car when I need one and fill the tank when I'm done or buy him liquor.

EDIT: Keep in mind, I live in a much smaller city than Calgary, so I'm not really ever going far.

That's fair then. I've had to drive friends literally every where we went before. It's not that big of a deal as I usually was going there anyways but it get's annoying when you're the one driving all of the time.

[blueski]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

Have you tried mountain biking? I love it, and it makes camping great. Without it, I'd be bored camping.

Yep did it hard core for a few years. Started out cross country and ended up full on downhill. Trips to the mountains every chance, yearly trips to Whistler. Ranged as far as Golden and Nelson on a lot of weekends. Had two separated shoulders, broken knee cap, broken collar bone. Got to the point where it was still fun going out with friends, still great for fitness but not exciting unless I was at the point where I was risking severe injury. Skiing is sort of like that now too, but I am really careful about how much I jump and how often I jump.

I'm pretty stupid/obsessive about sports I really like. Reached a high level in competitive skiing, probably would have been same in mountain biking if I started it younger (or paralyzed/dead :-)

For windsurfing, we don't actually live in Calgary anymore, but two hours away on a lake that gets epic wind. I still commute to Calgary to work 3-4 days/week and live in a $25,000 fully paid for 36 square foot apartment that doesn't have any tax or utility costs. It can be located/re-located easily within walking distance of any place of work in the city. (I'll howl if anyone that doesn't know me figures out what this actually is). Makes the ERE dude's concept of space and what is needed to actually live look like luxury in comparison. Too bad I still pay mortgage on the lake acreage, otherwise I'd be a quick amount of time to retirement with just the Calgary living arrangement.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by blueski

Yep did it hard core for a few years. Started out cross country and ended up full on downhill. Trips to the mountains every chance, yearly trips to Whistler. Ranged as far as Golden and Nelson on a lot of weekends. Had two separated shoulders, broken knee cap, broken collar bone. Got to the point where it was still fun going out with friends, still great for fitness but not exciting unless I was at the point where I was risking severe injury. Skiing is sort of like that now too, but I am really careful about how much I jump and how often I jump.

I'm pretty stupid/obsessive about sports I really like. Reached a high level in competitive skiing, probably would have been same in mountain biking if I started it younger (or paralyzed/dead :-)

For windsurfing, we don't actually live in Calgary anymore, but two hours away on a lake that gets epic wind. I still commute to Calgary to work 3-4 days/week and live in a $25,000 fully paid for 36 square foot apartment that doesn't have any tax or utility costs. It can be located/re-located easily within walking distance of any place of work in the city. (I'll howl if anyone that doesn't know me figures out what this actually is). Makes the ERE dude's concept of space and what is needed to actually live look like luxury in comparison. Too bad I still pay mortgage on the lake acreage, otherwise I'd be a quick amount of time to retirement with just the Calgary living arrangement.

My guess is a converted sprinter van. (Or similar)

[wwkayaker]

Originally Posted by blueski

Yeah skiing is brutal cost-wise. My requirements for a sport are: speed, carving, air time, weightlessness/playing with gravity, surfing, accelaration, challenging skill wise, not entirely dependent on physical strength, life long potential and provides fitness benefits with low probability of injury. It needs to be something that my whole family can enjoy together. The only sports that come close to skiing in terms of what I listed are windsurfing or kiting. With those, gas is the only marginal cost after equipment is paid for. We like camping and hiking together too but that isn't nearly as exciting.

I enjoy mountain biking too. How about whitewater kayaking? I see a lot of kids on the rivers and they are good kayakers. Lots of people thing of kayaking as high risk but not everybody needs to run class 4-5 rivers. Very similar to skiing in terms of initial investment followed by only gas money to continue the sport.

[blueski]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

My guess is a converted sprinter van. (Or similar)

Yup, similar. Plain old work van on the outside, very nice camper on the inside. Built it all myself. Works fine in all weather. Park only in commercial or industrial areas, going on my second year.

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by blueski

Yup, similar. Plain old work van on the outside, very nice camper on the inside. Built it all myself. Works fine in all weather. Park only in commercial or industrial areas, going on my second year.

Full time? You have a gym membership to shower?

[The Yen Man]

Retiring at 30 doesn't seem too fun to me. I actually quite enjoy the social interaction from being in a working environment. I've been lucky that my company is fantastic to work for, and my job isn't stressful to the point where its a struggle to go to work everyday.

I think if I was retired by age 30, I'd feel disconnected from the rest of the world. All your other friends would still be working most of the time, so you'd probably be spending large amounts of time by yourself doing nothing. That doesn't sound very appealing at all, TBH.

[blueski]

Originally Posted by wwkayaker

I enjoy mountain biking too. How about whitewater kayaking? I see a lot of kids on the rivers and they are good kayakers. Lots of people thing of kayaking as high risk but not everybody needs to run class 4-5 rivers. Very similar to skiing in terms of initial investment followed by only gas money to continue the sport.

Yeah I can do an Eskimo roll. Never got into it that much though. Logistics are difficult, usually two vehicles needed, sometimes lots of tramping through the bush. You want to go with competent people too. And I've heard it is the world's most dangerous watersport. I don't like to do sports where even if you do everything right, you could still die. Sure that is possible in any sport, but kayaking, sledding, and back country skiing seem to be a little too much past where I am comfortable in that regard, especially now that I am a father.

[blueski]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

Full time? You have a gym membership to shower?

Full time employed yes. But I work from home 1-2 days a week. Work showers are ideal, I have a sit down shower in the van but it isn't very great. I will upgrade it eventually if I ever really need it.

I've got a sink, 12 volt adjustable kettle, 5 day cooler, bed that is easy to level, safe propex thermostat controlled heater, awesome electrical that fully recharges during the weekly commute. The toilet is a Thetford Curve - high end porta potty that has worked out really well.

Only downside to this switch has been how much I miss the family while I'm in Calgary. Other than that it's been awesome and I'd have a hard time signing a lease for a rental or buying another place here in town after this. Wish I had this thing earlier in my life.

[Violator]

I figured it was a dumpster

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Violator

I figured it was a dumpster

Oh come on, even your best dumpster is at best only 24 square feet!

Anyway, this "retire at 30" stuff sounds like real pie-in-the-sky stuff to me. It's built on having a hell of a lucky start to begin with, and then some more luck and the ability to be the most boring 20-something person that ever lived.

Oh, and thinking you are Warren Buffett.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Oh come on, even your best dumpster is at best only 24 square feet!

Anyway, this "retire at 30" stuff sounds like real pie-in-the-sky stuff to me. It's built on having a hell of a lucky start to begin with, and then some more luck and the ability to be the most boring 20-something person that ever lived.

Oh, and thinking you are Warren Buffett.

Retire at 30 is a huge stretch that requires things to go right (ie luck). For MMM, it was getting in on the tech boom as an engineer. However, some of the ideas can be used to materially shorten the time it would take for a regular person to retire. Being able to retire 10 years sooner than they otherwise could is something I bet most people would like.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Being able to retire 10 years sooner than they otherwise could is something I bet most people would like.

Retiring 10 years earlier in the 50s is achievable for most people. But is it desirable? To me there's no such thing as enough savings, your spending goes up and down with the size of your nest egg. If you retire by choice ten years earlier, you lose 10 years or earnings and your nest egg will be stretched ten more years, double whammy.

What makes sense is if you have a DB plan working for the government mostly, you cannot accrue anymore pension after a number of years, then you can either retire and receive 50% of your salary as pension, or stay on and earn 100% of your salary. The difference is 50% and much less after tax, so it'll make sense to retire early.

[kevman]

I just browsed the moustache site a bit after hearing a lot about it. One thing to keep in mind with that site is being frugal IS their hobby. (and being a holier than thou smart ass)

That's great for some but it doesn't work for everyone. Being smart with your money isn't always about the cheapest way of doing everything. It's about prioritizing what you enjoy and, well, enjoying it.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by darklord700

Retiring 10 years earlier in the 50s is achievable for most people.

Being able to retire != Actually retiring

Having enough money to be financially independent is a fundamentally positive thing. It might still make sense to choose to work for more years, for a variety of reasons.

[bootsnixon]

Interesting thread. The lifestyle/past times you enjoy play a big factor. MMM gets off on being frugal and others enjoy nice cars and skiing/golfing. I fall in the middle in regards to lifestyle expenses. Not because of the price, but because it's what I enjoy doing and that's what life is all about right?
One thing that has really lowered my lifestyle expenses is kijiji. It's been a game changer for me. I try kijiji first for just about everything over $50 in value. I know some people can't be bothered with it but I've found that lots of things are now basically free save for some lost opportunity costs with money being tied up. Want to go jetskiing? Buy a couple older ones on kijiji and sell them a couple years later when you're done with them for the same price you paid for them. I've done it with a few things. Lawnmowers, sleds, quads and travel trailers, I've done. Seems like a lot of things reach a bottom value and as long as you look after them, they stay the same value. If you buy some 1995 travel trailer for $4 or $5 grand, I'm confidant it will be worth the same in 5 years. Having such a liquid market for all these items is awesome and can really lower lifestyle costs.

[Calgary14]

Originally Posted by bootsnixon

Interesting thread. The lifestyle/past times you enjoy play a big factor. MMM gets off on being frugal and others enjoy nice cars and skiing/golfing. I fall in the middle in regards to lifestyle expenses. Not because of the price, but because it's what I enjoy doing and that's what life is all about right?
One thing that has really lowered my lifestyle expenses is kijiji. It's been a game changer for me. I try kijiji first for just about everything over $50 in value. I know some people can't be bothered with it but I've found that lots of things are now basically free save for some lost opportunity costs with money being tied up. Want to go jetskiing? Buy a couple older ones on kijiji and sell them a couple years later when you're done with them for the same price you paid for them. I've done it with a few things. Lawnmowers, sleds, quads and travel trailers, I've done. Seems like a lot of things reach a bottom value and as long as you look after them, they stay the same value. If you buy some 1995 travel trailer for $4 or $5 grand, I'm confidant it will be worth the same in 5 years. Having such a liquid market for all these items is awesome and can really lower lifestyle costs.

I agree - kijiji is an easy way to save money on virtually everything. Heck, you can even buy houses on there.

I love saving money but I refuse to eat kraft dinner for the rest of my life and I will always make travel a priority. Is that a waste? Maybe to some, but I don't think so.

I guess the whole concept of early retirement depends on what you consider retiring. Everyone has a different definition. In the case of MMM he quit his day job to do carpentry full time and has a website that earns $100k annually - which I assume requires a ton of work - 40 hours a week. Is that retiring? Maybe, but most would simply consider it a career change.