Where's Putin?

[CaptainCrunch]

Just for informational purposes. The Russian Northern Fleet includes

10 SSN's including upgraded Akula Class boats,
at least 5 SSBN's

The Kuznetsov which will serve as the fleet flagship
A Kirov class nuclear battlecruiser
at least 4 mixed class destroyers
at least 6 anti-submarine frigates
A regiment of naval bombers
A regiment of supporting fighters
A regiment of anti-submarine long range aircraft and helicopters
probably a regiment of naval infantry and their LST's

Its a pretty formidable force.

[Vulcan]

Canada's northern fleet.

[Cube Inmate]

When politicians disappear for unexplained periods, it's always related to sex. Sometimes infidelity, but always "sex" in one way or another. They're not smart enough to make such obvious mistakes (e.g. disappearing) for any other reason.

Congratulations, Vlad!

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

When politicians disappear for unexplained periods, it's always related to sex. Sometimes infidelity, but always "sex" in one way or another. They're not smart enough to make such obvious mistakes (e.g. disappearing) for any other reason.

Congratulations, Vlad!

[polak]

Well considering no one else acknowledges our Northern Sovereignty so we can probably forget about much help should Putin flex some muscle in the north, I think it's time to ask what people think about upping our defense budget now?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by polak

Well considering no one else acknowledges our Northern Sovereignty so we can probably forget about much help should Putin flex some muscle in the north, I think it's time to ask what people think about upping our defense budget now?

sadly, this is Canada..........we will make due.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by polak

Well considering no one else acknowledges our Northern Sovereignty so we can probably forget about much help should Putin flex some muscle in the north, I think it's time to ask what people think about upping our defense budget now?

There's upping defense budgets, and then there's upping defense budgets.

Arctic sovereignty is a whole other division of naval and military strategy.

Beyond paroling aircraft you need submarines that can operate in that environment which means longer patrols and the ability to stay discrete for longer. That means either nuclear or air independent charging systems like the German's and Swedes have on their coastal patrol subs. you would need naval icebreakers or hardened hulled armed ships that can operate year round up there.

You would also need to create your own sensor network up there and come up with a fast response plan.

[FlamesAddiction]

The arctic sovereignty issue will be won in a court room, not in a battle.

While a strong military presence in the arctic will help our case, strengthening our civilian presence in the north would go a long way to helping the cause. Russia has cities in their arctic with populations larger than 300,000. Norway has a few greater than 70,000. Canada has a few hamlets and villages comprising mostly of semi-autonomous First Nations groups.

I think the country needs to do more to get people to settle in the north and create a real presence there. From a military stand point, it would also be useful to help with supply lines. From a legal and diplomatic perspective, I think it is essential.

I think we will also need to wheel and deal with the Americans more on the issue. Canadian arctic sovereignty is dependent on that relationship more than it is on Russian interests IMO.

[polak]

Personally, I think we will lose it all.

We're not going to get what small population we have to move up there and we don't seem to have the stomach for a fight.

We really don't have any claim to it besides random lines drawn in snow back before electricity was a thing.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Canada's northern fleet.

Partially correct. This is the other part...







.

[FlameOn]

Putin signs deal with Georgia's South Ossetia region effectively integrating it with Russia

President Vladimir Putin signed a treaty with Georgia's rebel South Ossetia region on Wednesday that almost completely integrates it with Russia, alarming Georgia and the West a year after Moscow took over Crimea.

Tbilisi described the "alliance and integration" treaty as a "move aimed at annexation" and the United States and European Union said they would not recognize the agreement, which the EU depicted as a threat to regional security and stability.

Under the deal, signed in the Kremlin by Putin and South Ossetian leader Leonid Tibilov, a former KGB official, the region's security forces, military, economy, customs service and border guards will be deeply integrated with those of Russia.

Russia won a five-day war with Georgia in 2008 over the fate of South Ossetia and another rebel region, Abkhazia. It formally recognizes both regions as independent states and signed a similar treaty with Abkhazia last year.

"Another step is being taken today to strengthen our partnership," Putin said after signing what he described as a "landmark" treaty in the Kremlin, with the Russian and South Ossetian flags behind him.

Tibilov hailed the agreement, which will make it easier for the people of South Ossetia to gain Russian citizenship, as "the best possible guarantee of state security". He said EU and U.S. officials should mind their own business.

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-signs-t...124624670.html

[Thor]

More I see what Putin's doing, the more I think of the war in Red Storm Rising, where no nukes are used but Russia could do the same because no one will use nukes, but a standard war could happen where peace is made with Russia recapturing lots of their old territory and the cold war begins again after that.

He's going to try more of this shadow invasion stuff like with Crimea and eastern Ukraine, until finally a point is reached where NATO and the west finally send in troops to area's which Putin will consider an act of war. When all is said and done with many lives lost people will make peace and he will have captured more land than he wants, and will conceded some land for peace, ultimate landing the territory he wanted to begin with.

That's my fear.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Thor

More I see what Putin's doing, the more I think of the war in Red Storm Rising, where no nukes are used but Russia could do the same because no one will use nukes, but a standard war could happen where peace is made with Russia recapturing lots of their old territory and the cold war begins again after that.

He's going to try more of this shadow invasion stuff like with Crimea and eastern Ukraine, until finally a point is reached where NATO and the west finally send in troops to area's which Putin will consider an act of war. When all is said and done with many lives lost people will make peace and he will have captured more land than he wants, and will conceded some land for peace, ultimate landing the territory he wanted to begin with.

That's my fear.

Yeah, something like that. What Russia and Putin are doing is a complete ego trip as they don't need more land. As any fool can see they would be better off developing what they have and co-operating with the rest of the world instead they are bringing war.

[CaptainCrunch]

Its not about land, its about creating buffer spaces between Greater Russia and NATO.

I'm not on Putin's side I think that he's a great threat to European security, however when you look at Estonia, Luthuania, Latvia sitting right on Russia's borders, and The Ukraine which Russia considers to be hostile, you can understand the paranoia effect thats going on.

We can sit here and say that NATO has no interest in attacking Russia, but Russian's don't think that way, based on their history, their always thinking about the next Hitler or Napoleon.

Also on the home front, Putin is using these incidences and the heightened troubles with the West and his actions as removing peoples attentions from troubles at home with their economy etc.

Combine that with Putin's massive ego and its not hard to figure out reasons why.

[Thor]

We'll the land is the buffer, which is why I suggest the scenario that they retake some of their former territories to increase the buffer under the justification of those areas are mostly Russian or want to rejoin the motherland.

I think more shadow invasions are coming, that's for sure. You can't argue this has been pretty effective so far, the odds of those parts of eastern Ukraine ever going back to Ukraine seem pretty bleak.

[FlamesAddiction]

Personally I think destabilization of the West and undermining the West's power is as much of their overall goal as anything. They are having trouble building themselves into the economic and political powerhouse they want to be, so the next best thing is to take their rivals down a notch. For them, it's easier to destroy than to build.

I especially don't trust how he has been meeting with the RS separatist leader in Bosnia and declaring his support. They are not a "buffer" country. It sounds more like he just wants to try and stir a hornets nest. I doubt it will work, but it is still bothersome.

[CaptainCrunch]

At the same time, the Russian's are running all kinds of pipelines to the far east. Selling Energy to a energy hungry country like China, should help the Russians' economically and allow them to up energy pressure on Europe.