I'm only speculating but I bet a year ago there would have been an overwhelming swing the other way to acquire Kane, warts and all. It says a lot for where the team is now.
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Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand.
Chemistry is one of the Flames' biggest assets right now. Everyone is buying in and everyone believes in each other.
Treliving has already mentioned that he wants to be very careful about any changes to the room because the chemistry is so good.
Who is to say that Kane wouldn't buy in? Hartley has done a great job getting everyone on the same page, and there's a good possibility it wouldn't be much different with Kane around.
If the Flames can get him for cheap, they should pursue it. RW is arguably the biggest weakness on this team, and if you can get a young, talented player like Kane, you'd be a fool not to look into it.
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Who is to say that Kane wouldn't buy in? Hartley has done a great job getting everyone on the same page, and there's a good possibility it wouldn't be much different with Kane around.
If the Flames can get him for cheap, they should pursue it. RW is arguably the biggest weakness on this team, and if you can get a young, talented player like Kane, you'd be a fool not to look into it.
Who's to say he would? The only thing that we can go on is history. Too big of a gamble. Paaaaaaasssssss
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I think Kane is actually jeopardizing his own career. Good player, horrible attitude. Its not going to get him far being an idiot and then acting like everyone else is out to get him.
Is that really the type of player we want on the Flames? Not me. I think the negatives would start to outweigh the positives at some point. All it takes is one guy like this to derail the positive momentum this team has build up over the last 2 seasons.
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A few weeks after crashing head-first into the boards (denting his helmet and being unable to move for a little while) following a hit from behind by Bob Errey, the Calgary Flames player explains:
"I was like Christ, lying on my back, with my arms outstretched, crucified"
-- Frank Musil - Early January 1994
Maybe not completely fair, but the fact he is such a diva for attention and a ham for the camera just really bugs me. He is like the Justin Bieber of hockey.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
Voted yes. Do I think he needs to grow the eff up? Hell yeah. Said it before and I'll say it in this thread too. If a team can get him to focus on being a true professional on and off the ice and just play the game of hockey without all the baggage, that acquiring team will hit paydirt.
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I am somewhat confused about why Thornton is on this list. He was drafted by the Bruins in 1997, and was not traded until late 2005, so he would have been 26 going on 27. I can see why all the other players are on that list, but Thornton played for nearly a decade with Boston, before being dealt to San Jose.
I didn't make the list, just responded to it. Fact is, Thornton was traded when there was speculation about his "lack of heart" in the playoffs when he was playing poorly with cracked ribs. He was traded pretty soon after that, and he's never done very well in the playoffs since. Boston was probably evaluating him correctly at the time. He just doesn't have an extra gear in crunch time.
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"You know, that's kinda why I came here, to show that I don't suck that much" ~ Devin Cooley, Professional Goaltender
On this thread and on ones about Richards and other players, it's been suggested that Hartley and/or Gio could turn a problem player's attitude around. I think they are both great but I don't see any examples of this. In fact, I kinda wonder about Setoguchi, who didn't seem to match the effort or fitness of the team and wasn't turned around when playing here.
On this thread and on ones about Richards and other players, it's been suggested that Hartley and/or Gio could turn a problem player's attitude around. I think they are both great but I don't see any examples of this. In fact, I kinda wonder about Setoguchi, who didn't seem to match the effort or fitness of the team and wasn't turned around when playing here.
Yeah, and its not like the other teams aren't trying to turn these guys around.
They are who they are. Some grow up and change. Many do not. The Calgary Flames are not some psycho-magic rehab centre.
There are plenty of cases in the NHL of players who were seen as problem cases who turned things around. People change all the time. Kane is 23. He definitely has time to grow up and change. This is probably that major point in his career where he can either make changes and go on to have a successful career or continue down the same path. I understand people love to hate the guy but I actually hope he makes a change for the better and becomes the player many know he can be. I think he could really pay off for a team if he does.
There are plenty of cases in the NHL of players who were seen as problem cases who turned things around. People change all the time. Kane is 23. He definitely has time to grow up and change. This is probably that major point in his career where he can either make changes and go on to have a successful career or continue down the same path. I understand people love to hate the guy but I actually hope he makes a change for the better and becomes the player many know he can be. I think he could really pay off for a team if he does.
I have been hearing that about Kane for over 3 years now, and the problems have only been getting worse. I have a feeling he is more likely going to go down the road that players like Radulov and Heatley did.
I didn't make the list, just responded to it. Fact is, Thornton was traded when there was speculation about his "lack of heart" in the playoffs when he was playing poorly with cracked ribs. He was traded pretty soon after that, and he's never done very well in the playoffs since. Boston was probably evaluating him correctly at the time. He just doesn't have an extra gear in crunch time.
Not this tripe again.
Thornton has 82 points in 97 playoff games in San Jose since 2006. He is also probably the single biggest reason why they played that many games in the first place.
I wish anybody on the Flames sucked in the post-season as much as Thornton has.
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I am a lunatic whose world revolves around hockey and Oilers hate.
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As I posted pages ago I would take him if it was cheap. Got to thinking that "my"cheap would have no chance. So I'm upping what I think flames should offer ( and yes I think flames and every team in the Nhl will enquire).
Sven, Bollig and a 3rd for Kane.
Don't get me wrong I think Jets will get a way better return than that.
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I don't know if I buy the disruption of chemistry as a valid reason. Considering Kane wouldn't be available until next season anyways, the team is already going to be going through a fair bit of personnel change in the off season with UFAs/RFAs leaving, rookies coming in, new signings, etc. Chemistry will naturally change because of that, even though you keep the core.
If the Flames can get him for cheap, they should pursue it. RW is arguably the biggest weakness on this team, and if you can get a young, talented player like Kane, you'd be a fool not to look into it.
Kane is a left shooting, left winger... so not sure what the point of this was.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
Before you call me a pessimist or a downer, the Flames made me this way. Blame them.
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Pronger: Went to the Ducks and helped them win a cup. Obvious win goes to the Ducks, but the situation that Pronger created hog-tied the Oilers.
Lindros: Went to Philly and was a very good player for several years. They did well in the playoffs a few years, got to the finals once and were quickly swept in 4 games by the Red Wings. *Meanwhile, the return for Lindros (Forsberg, Hextall, Duchesne, Thibault, Ricci, Simon) pushed the Nordiques/Avalanche to elite status and they were dominant for years, winning 2 cups. That's a win for the team that made the trade.
Thornton: Possibly one of the greatest playmakers of all time, Thornton is no doubt an elite player…in the regular season. Since his trade, the Sharks have been favored to win a cup during nearly his entire tenure, and haven't even made it to the cup final. Nobody would argue that the Bruins won that trade, getting back Sturm, Stuart, and Primeau, but they still managed to win a cup and make it to the finals another time. Thornton just isn't a winner when it matters, and that's why he was traded. Next!
Seguin: Again, the return for Seguin wasn't amazing, but it's hard to separate the pieces. It was Seguin, Peverly, and prospect Ryan Button for Loui Eriksson and prospects Matt Fraser (now claimed off waivers), Reilly Smith, and Joseph Morrow. Since that trade the Bruins have finished first in the NHL and subsequently lost in the 2nd round. Not having a great year this year, but will still make the playoffs. Dallas has made the playoffs once since acquiring Seguin, but didn't get past the first round, despite his rapid progression in point totals. Not saying he's totally to blame, but they haven't been much better even with his talent. Time will tell.
Phaneuf: Cripes…look at how the Leafs have fallen apart with him as their captain. That's a team with plenty of talent to be a playoff team, but have zero character running through that room. I'd take Stajan's mediocre talent and massive heart over Phaneuf any day of the week. We'll likely win a cup sooner with Matt Stajan than we ever would with Phaneuf. Not going to give this one any more credence.
Heatley: He wasn't the most loyal of players, but was he really a locker room problem? Not sure about that one. Either way, he was originally traded for Hossa and a DeVries. Good trade for Atlanta on that one, it's just a shame they could never make the rest of the team that much better. Ottawa got the best years out of Heatley, and even made it to the cup final, but never managed to win it all. Win for Ottawa.
The Ottawa thing was confusing, and it was obviously about clashing with the coaches' style more than anything. Clouston didn't last much longer anyway, and Heatley was on a rapid downslope for his career, so it's moot. It was probably a blessing for Ottawa to move him to be unburdened by his contract. They got back Cheechoo (who also fell apart instantaneously) and Michalek who has been a serviceable top 6 winger for them. They've made the playoffs twice since and won a round. Win Ottawa.
Richards/Carter: It was odd to see them figure it out in L.A., but I think a lot of credit should be given to Sutter. Players have always been more disciplined under his watch, for whatever reason. Phaneuf was a lot more manageable in Calgary than he has been in Toronto. Was that Sutter? Not sure, but he is the common denominator in the Richards/Carter situation. Either way, Philly got back plenty for Richards (Schenn, Simmonds), and more than enough back for Carter (Voracek, Couturier). No, they haven't won anything of significance since those trades, but if I'm a GM and that's what's being offered for two players that have had questionable work ethics, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Hindsight is 20/20 of course.
Basically, your premise is false. Trading away problematic high talent players rarely doesn't work out for a team, and they often do much better without the player, whereas the traded player often has middling success in the post-season.
I was talking about when Pronger was traded to St Louis,
With Thornton I included him because I was throwing out names of young NHL proven high potential guys that were rumored to have been traded for for personal issues and attitude problems.
I think you proved my point for me, there are very very few examples of of these type of trades where the team that acquires the highly tallented "problem" player looks back on it with regret at what they lost.
Lindros ran into some injury problems and Colorado developed good young players exceptionally well.
Phanuef was mismanaged, should never have been named captain, the contract is ludicrous. But If I were the Flames I would still take that trade back, as long as he didn't have to be our captain or have a 7x7 contract.
Heatley for Hossa was a pretty even trade, but Ottawa kept Heatley longer than they would have kept Hossa, got a better return for him when they traded him away, and Heatley/Spezza/Alfredsson were the best trio in the league for
10 years later does it look great? NO
But still by any measure the teams acquiring problem players almost always win.
That said if Bennett is their bottom line, Treliving should laugh and walk away.
Thornton has 82 points in 97 playoff games in San Jose since 2006. He is also probably the single biggest reason why they played that many games in the first place.
I wish anybody on the Flames sucked in the post-season as much as Thornton has.
I remember watching him during the last layoffs and he looked emotionless and lost when they were down. Not what you want from your captain, at the time. Maybe SJ overplayed him during the year.
As for Kane. I think they would want someone from the organization to have an extensive interview to see where his head is at.
