NHL Power Rankings

[TheDebaser]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Flames (at least to midway thru the third which was the last I heard) were out shooting the Canes. No one could suggest they were outplaying them.

Including blocked and missed shots?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

This is why advanced stats are used more in baseball. With double the games they have double the amount of data coming in.

Baseball also is pretty much a 1-on-1 sport. Batter vs Pitcher. It's much easier to break down a game statistically then a more dynamic team game like hockey, which has more factors into each play.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TheDebaser

Including blocked and missed shots?

I'm not sure why we should be convinced that blocked and missed shots are all that significant in terms of determining possession as a problem for this Flames team. It is pretty clear that shot-blocking is a big part of their gameplan. It is most certainly a different approach than the chase-the-puck-from-one-carrier-to-the-next defensive system that best describes the Oilers' strategy. As a result, the Flames will tend to surrender ALOT more shot attempts, but not because they are no good at controlling the play or possessing the puck, because they are not always focused on possessing the puck at all costs and in all circumstances.

Anyhow, I agree with what formulate and Street Pharmacist have been saying about the function and value of advanced metrics for gauging possession. However, I should like to add that I think the correlation between the data and the results have a tendency to be exaggerated because most often the differences between individual players and teams is really marginal.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by _Q_

This is why I hate advanced stats. Most of the time it's just cherry picking and convoluting numbers to make up whatever narrative you please and to make yourself seem smarter than you are.

"Yeah sure the Flames are off to a hot start, but if you add the goals up, multiple them by shot attempts, divide by quality of opposition and subtract the goalies age, the Flames are actually way behind the rest of the league. This team is not good, my stats prove that. I made a chart about it too "

Not really, there's analysis done/being done on which stats are most predictive.

Predictive stats, of course, are better than non-predictive stats.

[DJones]

Damn The Score, they are still just ripping on the Flames. Have the Oilers ahead of us still.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by DJones

Damn The Score, they are still just ripping on the Flames. Have the Oilers ahead of us still.

To be fair, be patient till the 35GP mark, then rail on Drance. This was his answer to me on what he needs to see for the Flames to rise:

J. Kendal ‏@jkendal4 @ThomasDrance Question, how big a sample till you start believing the Flames? Above 50% Fenwick close last 10g, 1st in strength of schedule


Thomas Drance ‏@ThomasDrance Nov 10 @jkendal4 as for what I need, if the Flames are a 48ish CF% team with a good record after 35 GP and normalized %s - they'll start to rise...


Thomas Drance ‏@ThomasDrance Nov 10
@jkendal4 there's a lot to like for the future, at the moment though this team is too limited imo

[mdubz]

Originally Posted by J epworth kendal

To be fair, be patient till the 35GP mark, then rail on Drance. This was his answer to me on what he needs to see for the Flames to rise:

So his rankings aren't based on how a team is currently performing?

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by mdubz

So his rankings aren't based on how a team is currently performing?

No they aren't, they are based on which teams he thinks are the best in the NHL, as the season goes along the rankings change as teams prove their either better or worse. That's why LA is still at #1, even though they've been completely average this year, since even though they aren't playing great they still haven't shown that they aren't a team that will be a favourite for the cup come April (sorry for the double negative).

Very different way to do Power Rankings, which is why its so easy to think he's out to lunch when you see where some teams are placed. Best example though is he thought Oilers were going to be good, but each week they prove more to him that they really haven't improved, and now are behind the Flames, where they rightfully belong.

[mrkajz44]

I never understood power rankings to be honest. Personally, I think they should be a representation of how a team is performing in the last week or two (say 5 games or so). Are they hot or cold?

Therefore, any team could be top or bottom really - if buffalo breaks out and wins 5 in a row (I know, but just for an example) they should be shuffled way up the power rankings becuase right now they are hot and therefore more dangerous.

Maybe I'm off base on what power rankings are really for, but I think that is what they should be. Simply ranking teams based on the standings over the whole year is somewhat useless in my eyes (which is usually how power rankings end up, baring a few differences).

[_Q_]

Power rankings are dumb.

If you need to know how well a team is doing at a particular point in time, look at the standings. Seriously that's all it takes.

No need to analyze the crap out of the game. But I guess everyone needs to make a living and make themselves look important so you get garbage like "power rankings" that some fans love to argue over.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by J epworth kendal

To be fair, be patient till the 35GP mark, then rail on Drance. This was his answer to me on what he needs to see for the Flames to rise:

They Oilers haven't beaten a team from the west yet...the guy is a troll

[Jay Random]

The trouble with power rankings, of course, is that everybody who does one has a different definition of power. And the rankings that actually use meaningful stats to determine power also use complex formulas to assign different weights to each stat. The weighting is subjective, and the formulas are generally kept secret, which makes the whole exercise kind of pointless.

Speaking only for myself, I only have one good reason to read power rankings. They are the one place where a sports writer is forced to write something about all 30 teams. This means they can be a decent place to pick up tidbits of news about teams I don't normally follow. The rankings are fluff, but the stuff people write to justify the rankings can be quite informative.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by dino7c

They Oilers haven't beaten a team from the west yet...the guy is a troll

Oilers are 27th now in his rankings and Flames are 24th! I consider that a win as he has consistently said all year that he thinks the Oilers are a better team. Results are changing his mind, he's not being a troll he's just being stubborn and conservative in his projections.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by J epworth kendal

Oilers are 27th now in his rankings and Flames are 24th! I consider that a win as he has consistently said all year that he thinks the Oilers are a better team. Results are changing his mind, he's not being a troll he's just being stubborn and conservative in his projections.

I must have read an old post...someone was complaining Oilers were still ahead...must have been last week

still though guy is trying to gain hits

anybody ever hear of the score power rankings before the last few weeks? Put a canadian team or two in an "odd" spot based on their record and watch the tweets fly

[djsFlames]

SB Nation's power ranking comments today:

15. Calgary Flames (11-6-2) | Matchsticks & Gasoline

After Bob Hartley was fired by Atlanta in 2007, many believed his old-school brand of hockey was growing obsolete. There may still be truth to that sentiment, but he’s doing a heck of job with the young, upstart Flames.

Calgary is just two points behind Anaheim for the top spot in the West and is doing far better than anticipated. That’s all well and good, but the regression monster is putting on his bib and preparing to feast.

The Flames simply cannot maintain a 10.16 5v5 shooting percentage, which is more than a full percentage point above everyone else in the NHL. The losses will start piling up once they stop scoring at an unsustainable rate.

Ha. We'll see about that. I agree our scoring will likely come down a bit, but I don't think that'll mean significantly more losses. These kids won't stop pushing, whether they get down one goal, two goals, etc. Resilience and relentlessness in work ethic is what's paying off for this team and I don't see that going away any time soon. If they have to shoot more to get the goals, then they'll get more shots. These kids have bought into what Hartley is preaching. Hiller and Ramo will give them a chance every night.

The "regression monster" can eat it.

[Huntingwhale]

Spoiler!

The only rankings that matter. Check back daily for more updates.

[megatron]

I know CP doesn't put any stock in Power Rankings, but these are updated as of Nov. 17th:

TSN: Calgary 10th (up from 16th)

Flames President Brian Burke doesn't believe that the club's early results are a fluke, because they've managed to build this positive record in the face of injuries while playing 11 of their first 17 games on the road, but if those possession stats don't get better, the Flames will need to ride percentages and that's been established as a risky proposition.
Key Injuries: LW Mason Raymond (upper body), C Joe Colborne (upper body), C Matt Stajan (knee), C Mikael Backlund (abdomen).

ESPN: Calgary 12th (down from 11th)

The surprising Flames get a chance to show once again if they're for real, hosting the Ducks and Blackhawks this week.

[troutman]

EDM is 6-2-1 vs the East, which tells you all you need to know about how crappy the East is.

I laugh at Power Rankings that have TB, MTL and PIT near the top.

The best 8 teams in the NHL might all be in the West.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by troutman

EDM is 6-2-1 vs the East, which tells you all you need to know about how crappy the East is.

I laugh at Power Rankings that have TB, MTL and PIT near the top.

The best 8 teams in the NHL might all be in the West.

Pittsburgh is 5-1-0 against the west

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Pittsburgh is 5-1-0 against the west

I would rate PIT higher than MTL, but behind at least 6 Western teams.