The future of Bob Hartley

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Career years for Giordano, Hudler, Brodie, Colborne, Russell, etc.
Injuries for Cammaleri and Glencross, tragedy for Stajan.
What is Hartley supposed to do with our vets?

Wasn't a career year for Hudler (although it was close), but I get what you're saying.
Backlund also had best NHL season last year.

I wouldn't be in a rush to give him an extention, but wouldn't be opposed to it as long as Treliving likes what he sees at the end of the year.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Hartley is a stop-gap AHL coach.

Hartley: "I am sorry, I can't hear ricardodw because I have a Stanley Cup ring and a Swiss Championship ring in my ear"

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Hartley: "I am sorry, I can't hear ricardodw because I have a Stanley Cup ring and a Swiss Championship ring in my ear"

And a Calder cup, no?

[Northendzone]

His shelf life is likely two or three more seasons at most - reality of coaching in the nhl

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Hartley: "I am sorry, I can't hear ricardodw because I have a Stanley Cup ring and a Swiss Championship ring in my ear"

I was going to say the Exact same thing lol

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

And a Calder cup, no?

Yes. He has also won a Junior A title with Hawkesbury and a QMJHL championship with Laval Titians.

Despite having won a championship in Every league he has EVER coached . He is just terrible

[FAN]

I think absent a late season collapse, Hartley should get another year if the team continues to work and play hard every night and the kids continue to develop.

Burke has always brought in his own guy, but Treliving seems to be the one who is going to make the decision and Phoenix does have a stable coaching staff. I think the key is that both Burke and Treliving know that they haven't given Hartley a whole lot to work with so I think as long as the kids are developing and the team plays a hard competitive game every night Hartley is going to be given a chance to coach a better team.

[d_phaneuf]

I think if/when the time comes that this current group (plus theoretically next years top pick) become a contender Hartley won't be the coach, my guess is that he's out before the start of 2017

you just don't often see a coach take a team from its infancy to a contender, Chicago brought in Quenneville, LA brought in Sutter, Sharks from Wilson to McLellen, Penguins from Therien to Bylsma etc.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

you just don't often see a coach take a team from its infancy to a contender, Chicago brought in Quenneville, LA brought in Sutter, Sharks from Wilson to McLellen, Penguins from Therien to Bylsma etc.

Those are terrible examples. Except for Chicago, the coaches you mentioned got fired when they made the playoffs the previous season. Therrien, in particular got fired when he coached the Pens to the Cup Finals the previous season.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

His shelf life is likely two or three more seasons at most - reality of coaching in the nhl

So give him a three year extension. Unless it's evident he's lost the room, he has earned it. And if you need to fire him in two years to get this team over the hump, so be it. It's not like we didn't fire coaches annually last decade, clearly ownership has the stomach for it.

Continuity is our friend. If the team isn't showing improvement, he has to go. If they are, he has to stay. They shouldn't fire him simply because he was Jay Feaster's guy.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FAN

Those are terrible examples. Except for Chicago, the coaches you mentioned got fired when they made the playoffs the previous season. Therrien, in particular got fired when he coached the Pens to the Cup Finals the previous season.

Except they're NOT terrible examples. dianne_phaneuf is absolutely correct in noting that this IS what happens—every time. Unless you have some actual counter examples of an NHL coach who takes his team from infancy to contender.

No. History suggests pretty strongly that Hartley will be done in Calgary before this group is pushing for a championship.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Career years for Giordano, Hudler, Brodie, Colborne, Russell, etc.
Injuries for Cammaleri and Glencross, tragedy for Stajan.
What is Hartley supposed to do with our vets?

NHL career earnings at the start of last year:

Brodie 1M
Colburne < 1M

Russell had a career best 29 pts and a the worst -11 since his rookie year.

Cammalleri played very well below expectations under Hartley in 2012-13 and then was so bad in 2013-14 no one would give up a 2nd round pick at the trade deadline..... Cammalleri showed he had the talent ... starting the day after the trade deadline but under Hartley he was basically showing up to collect a pay check.

That Cammalleri never flourished under Hartley's coaching until it was made clear that it was going to cost him a lot of money going forward it a real warning sign.

A successful NHL coach has to get his best highest paid player to play like they are the best players.


Once a player gets over 10M in earnings (either past or guaranteed future earnings) then a coach has a more difficult time getting full commitment to playing hard.

Darryl Sutter getting the long term guys with > 10M in the bank on LA to play so hard for so long is a significant accomplishment.

What indication has Hartley given that he will be able to do this? He is batting 2 for about 20 in this category over the last 2 years... (Gio and Hudler)

What Hartley gets out of Stajan who likely has signed his last big contract and Raymond who just became financial secure for life will be an indication if he is really an NHL level coach.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

NHL career earnings at the start of last year:

Brodie 1M
Colburne < 1M

Russell had a career best 29 pts and a the worst -11 since his rookie year.

Cammalleri played very well below expectations under Hartley in 2012-13 and then was so bad in 2013-14 no one would give up a 2nd round pick at the trade deadline..... Cammalleri showed he had the talent ... starting the day after the trade deadline but under Hartley he was basically showing up to collect a pay check.

That Cammalleri never flourished under Hartley's coaching until it was made clear that it was going to cost him a lot of money going forward it a real warning sign.

A successful NHL coach has to get his best highest paid player to play like they are the best players.


Once a player gets over 10M in earnings (either past or guaranteed future earnings) then a coach has a more difficult time getting full commitment to playing hard.

Darryl Sutter getting the long term guys with > 10M in the bank on LA to play so hard for so long is a significant accomplishment.

What indication has Hartley given that he will be able to do this? He is batting 2 for about 20 in this category over the last 2 years... (Gio and Hudler)

What Hartley gets out of Stajan who likely has signed his last big contract and Raymond who just became financial secure for life will be an indication if he is really an NHL level coach.

Sutter's a good coach no doubt, but he also coaches a good team. Lets not act like Sutter is batting .1000 with this either. Mike Richards has gone down the tubes, Dustin Brown has gone from 50-60 point guy to 25-30 point guy.

Its a lot easier to be a good coach when you've got arguably the best defenseman in the world, one of the best centres on your team and depth like crazy.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

...

That Cammalleri never flourished under Hartley's coaching until it was made clear that it was going to cost him a lot of money going forward it a real warning sign.

A successful NHL coach has to get his best highest paid player to play like they are the best players.


Once a player gets over 10M in earnings (either past or guaranteed future earnings) then a coach has a more difficult time getting full commitment to playing hard.

Darryl Sutter getting the long term guys with > 10M in the bank on LA to play so hard for so long is a significant accomplishment.

What indication has Hartley given that he will be able to do this? He is batting 2 for about 20 in this category over the last 2 years... (Gio and Hudler)

This indication?: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...006902001.html

Joe Sakic
Peter Forsberg
Milan Hejduk
Alex Tanguay
Chris Drury
Ray Bourque
Shjon Podein
Ville Nieminen
Greg De Vries
Dan Hinote
Jon Klemm
Adam Foote
Stephane Yelle
Eric Messier
Rob Blake
Dave Reid
Steven Reinprecht
Scott Parker
Chris Dingman
Patrick Roy
David Aebischer

Or this indication?:

Spoiler!

P.S. It's not like he's in an exclusive club for NOT being able to get the best out of Cammalleri.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

This indication?

Oh, but that's ancient history. It's not like a modern coach can deal with modern players the way they did back in the 1940s or whenever that was.

[FlameZilla]

Also, ricardodw, this last statement is absolutely ridiculous:

Originally Posted by ricardodw

What Hartley gets out of Stajan who likely has signed his last big contract and Raymond who just became financial secure for life will be an indication if he is really an NHL level coach.

Stajan could end up being the team's 4th line centre and Raymond is 1 season removed from only staying in the NHL by the skin of his PTO contract.

Do you really judge a coach exclusively by how he handles 4th liners and retreads? Regardless of what they're being paid you can't polish a turd. Do you judge Scotty Bowman by how he got Darren McCarty or Kirk Maltby to play? Because that's about the level of talent you're talking about.

In 5 years time we'll judge Hartley on how his mentorship benefited (or didn't) Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Colborne, Backlund, Bouma and Brodie.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

What Hartley gets out of Stajan who likely has signed his last big contract and Raymond who just became financial secure for life will be an indication if he is really an NHL level coach.

So you think what Hartley does with aging 4th liners is more important than how he effects the progress of our future stars? Thank god you aren't our GM. You seem to think that young players are more easily motivated than vets. While that might be true (I would argue that they are about the same), getting young players to play the game the right way is the most important thing, otherwise you end up with the Oilers.

You also point to Tanguay, Iggy, etc... How many coaches did those guys float under? If you are vet making a lot of money and you can't motivate yourself, get the hell off the team.

[442scotty]

So tired of the negative nellies on this board... Hartley's no good, Johnny not good enough, etc etc blah blah blah...Go somewhere else

[Hatter]

Bob's starting to look visibly nervous when reporters are asking him about cuts now

I don't envy his position in the next few days here.

[Poe969]

I don't know anyone saying Hartley is no good. Most agree he's a great coach but he might only have a certain amount of "shelf life" left in him where others think he'll be around long term. Most everyone can agree that he's a good coach.

I don't think there is a single person who thinks Johnny is not good enough. He's great. Some people think it may be better for him to play in the minors for a year to develop more but after watching the pre season, most here agree that he's an elite talent......

The only exception to these are oiler trolls.