[Rumour] Flames very interested in UFA Tom Gilbert - Page 5 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

killer_carlson · 06-29-2014, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Krack Korn

You can't possibly believe that.

I do not consider Butler to be anything more than a 7th dman.

Read Only · 06-29-2014, 11:31 PM

Gilbert has looked pretty awful for the most part but we probably could use a vet for two years to fill in while Witherspoon gets more experience.

If that guy is RH all the better.

Anything more than two years would be a bad move.

cannon7 · 06-30-2014, 01:24 PM

Sure a right-handed shot on the blueline would be nice, but Gilbert is not a very good d-man... He's OK on the PP, but we have plenty of weapons there already. He might be big, but he doesn't play like it.

Matty81 · 06-30-2014, 01:36 PM

Ya I know Butler played well for the last half year of his 3 years here and a lot of folks like him now but I am in the 6th/7th defenceman camp too. He is serviceable and could play as a 4/5 if you are desperate but the only thing I really like about his game was shot blocking (and stepping up in the line brawl in Vancouver). Basically for me, trying for 4 months didn't erase 2.5 years of half assing it. I am happy to see him go.

Gilbert would be OK. The flames are basically looking for a placeholder for this spot and you could do worse - realistically we probably have to admit the last couple dmen coming in to the roster will be pretty poor unless Treliving gives up young assets.

Placeholder probably needs 2 or 3 years of service in them as our prospect depth at D is very poor and it will probably take another draft or two to start building up some bench strength there.

19Yzerman19 · 06-30-2014, 02:21 PM

2013 wasn't great, but look at every year before that and even last year. He finished around 52% on the Panthers. Former Oiler or no, the guy is ridiculously underrated and represents a market inefficiency (to the extent such a thing is possible in this defense-poor UFA market). Until December it was apparently looking absurd in FLA for him.

Quote:

Gilbert has been paired with Brian Campbell and is playing 22:13 a night. The Campbell/Gilbert pairing has been one of the NHL’s very best, with the Panthers posting a Corsi% north of 55 percent when the two of them are on the ice.

A Corsi% of about 55 percent for a defensive pairing that’s playing top minutes is elite—only two teams in the NHL (L.A. and Chicago) are above that.. But when the Campbell/Gilbert pairing isn’t on the ice, the Panthers have been putting up a Corsi% of 49.2 percent, which is very run of the mill—the Flyers, 20th in the NHL in this metric, are currently running at a 49.2 percent. Without anyone noticing, Gilbert/Campbell has been one of the best 5v5 defence pairings in the league.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/h...erts-breakout/

StrykerSteve · 06-30-2014, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

Last year wasn't great, but look at every year before that. Former Oiler or no the guy is ridiculously underrated and represents a market inefficiency (to the extent such a thing is possible in this defense-poor UFA market). This would be a very astute signing.

How about enlightening us on what metric we're looking at?

SuperMatt18 · 06-30-2014, 02:25 PM

Looks like Corsi,

Which means he is driving possession relative to his team, as long as he is not being sheltered that is a pretty good view.

Doesn't seem like he has been sheltered that much either and his zone starts are around 47% usually.

Could be quite possible that the Oiler/Florida bad team stench is making Tom Gilbert underrated.

Cleveland Steam Whistle · 06-30-2014, 02:26 PM

Can someone post Butler's as a comparable?

EldrickOnIce · 06-30-2014, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

How about enlightening us on what metric we're looking at?

It comes from mudcrutch, so it must be corsi

Ashasx · 06-30-2014, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Looks like Corsi,

Which means he is driving possession relative to his team, as long as he is not being sheltered that is a pretty good view.

He faced slightly easier zone starts but tougher competition than Butler.

He is better than Butler.

19Yzerman19 · 06-30-2014, 02:29 PM

Yes, sorry, it's just plain old Corsi. Here's Campbell's, which is also excellent.

Just for fun, here's Giordano. Last year actually made me giggle. Guy was so ridiculously over the top good.

Smid has actually held his own, too.

EldrickOnIce · 06-30-2014, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Can someone post Butler's as a comparable?

A flat line for Flames at about 45.
Flat line for Butler about 40
Cant block shot if you have the puck all the time

EldrickOnIce · 06-30-2014, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

Yes, sorry, it's just plain old Corsi. Just for fun, here's Giordano. g[/img]

Don't like muddy's charts. No QOC so less valuable

19Yzerman19 · 06-30-2014, 02:33 PM

Yeah but they're still useful info, especially when the guy in question produces consistent results. At least you know if you play him in a certain way you'll get a certain result.

Since everyone so far has actually looked good on those charts, here are some less good results.

God Jack Johnson is terrible.

EldrickOnIce · 06-30-2014, 02:39 PM

But Phaneuf a good example of ignoring QOC.
I'm no fan, but the guy did play the toughest minutes in the NHL with extraordinarily high D zone starts.
So it's no surprise his corsi is bad

19Yzerman19 · 06-30-2014, 02:42 PM

Well it's not so much "bad" as it is "lol 40 percent, really man?" Also not sure what his QOC / starts were before this past year. But sure. Just figured people on this board would be interested in a Phaneuf chart.

Still, look at the Jack Johnson one. Just look at it. Guy is making 5 million next year. It boggles the mind.

EldrickOnIce · 06-30-2014, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

Well it's not so much "bad" as it is "lol 40 percent, really man?" Also not sure what his QOC / starts were before this past year. But sure. Just figured people on this board would be interested in a Phaneuf chart.

Still, look at the Jack Johnson one. Just look at it. It boggles the mind.

Yes. Shows Phaneuf is definitely no good in the role as #1, and Johnson pretty much just no good.

Vedder · 06-30-2014, 02:46 PM

Does anyone recall what Gio and Brodie's Corsi was as a pairing? I recall reading that it was pretty impressive. I believe they also faced the toughest QOC on the team and were still above water, which is why blaming Dion's struggles on that metric alone is a bit of a stretch.

Flames Draft Watcher · 06-30-2014, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

Well it's not so much "bad" as it is "lol 40 percent, really man?" Also not sure what his QOC / starts were before this past year. But sure. Just figured people on this board would be interested in a Phaneuf chart.

Still, look at the Jack Johnson one. Just look at it. Guy is making 5 million next year. It boggles the mind.

Oh if only one little chart told the whole tale of how good a player is and how much impact they make on the ice.

It really doesn't as much as some want to believe it does. Nothing can replace watching hockey players to figure out how much impact they make.

19Yzerman19 · 06-30-2014, 02:50 PM

Thanks but I watch lots of hockey and the guy who makes those charts watches more than both of us combined. They're a tool, they're not everything, it's not unreasonable for people to post players' stats as an argument why to sign or not sign a guy, and there are some stats.

Incidentally, while they're sometimes misleading because of information that isn't reflected, that above chart fully sums up who Jack Johnson is as a player.