Seattle Will Raise Minimum Wage to $15/hr By 2020; Automatic Annual 2.4% Increases

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Just out of curiosity, where do you live where you can live off of $1000 a month?

I personally could easily afford gas for my vehicle and utilities with $1000 month. So at least I'd have those two things covered......

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Just out of curiosity, where do you live where you can live off of $1000 a month?

Bad Cannstat, Baden-Württemberg, Deutschland

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Azure

While this is true, and Walmart is a great example of a company whose business model takes advantage of government welfare, I prefer if people would just stop shopping at Walmart, and instead start supporting companies like Costco who treat their employees fairly well.

This is part of the tragedy of the commons.

Wal-Mart doesn't sell things for cheap because people love deals and Walmart loves slim margins, they sell things for cheap because people NEED things for cheap. The people who shop at Walmart are looking for deals because they have tight budgets, and need things like dish soap, and tupperware containers and snacks for their kids lunches.

Wal-Mart is not just driving down wages, they are a product OF them. Walmart takes off from I think something like 250 stores in 1980 to over 1000 in 1988 and something like 1400 by 1990. Now, obviously, their growth has increased dramatically since then, but, things like 'Sams club' etc, the rapid brand expansion, don't start taking off until after Reagan broke the air traffic controllers union in 1982, and the landscape of labour changed dramatically in the US.

People need to go to Walmart because they can't afford to go somewhere with a higher margin. It's not a choice. Walmart, to their credit, understand that further depressing wages on a national scale is good for their bottom line. Wouldn't it be great if people couldn't afford to go to Best Buy anymore to buy a TV? Or Safeway to buy their groceries?

The only thing that is a challenge to them, really, is Amazon, who are outbidding them through mechanization and standardization. Basically, the only way you can compete with Walmart's wages is by not paying ANY.

Originally Posted by Shawnski

Keep reading his works. Lots of stuff on YouTube. The guy has devoted his life to this. And he isn't the only one.

I have read his first book on affirmative action in an academic capacity and was not impressed. I don't have much of a scholarly critique, nor do I think I am in the position to give one, but, (and this may be some bias) it reads like many books attempting to utilize economics to explain human behaviour; often those sorts of answers are not found in that field.

The state is the vessel in which capitalism functions. The rules of the game are determined by the state, hence, whatever 'economics' transpire within that system are inherently informed by the state like the odds in a casino are controlled by the house. It's intellectually dishonest to not assign appropriate valuations to judgements in that regard. As I mentioned in my first reply in regards to South Africa, it is not the ECONOMICS of the situation which is the determining factor, it is the POLITICS. Yes, money informs politics, but, money does not dictate politics. It was a bunch of racist whites who prevented blacks from associating in groups and treated them as close to a commodity as you can in an 18th/19th/20th century white colony. That is the reason their wages were depressed, not for some Friedman-informed free market utopia where blacks were an economic danger to South African whites.

'Wages' is such an utterly auxiliary concern that in my opinion it is insulting to include it as an argument.

Originally Posted by Shawnski

Let's be real people.

When the powers that be can pump TRILLIONS of dollars into the economy, benefitting those FIRST served best, thus increasing the differential 1% from the massed at an ever increasing ratio, you are debating about the minimum wage to be enslaved in this system?

The game of Three Card Monte is strong in this forum.

Originally Posted by Shawnski

Look, EVERYONE wants to help out and I have no question, that EVERYONE has the best interests at heart.

So do I.

But the populous avenues (which typically are vote buying journeys) are NOT in the best interest of the ultimate societal benefit.

This is my issue with both yours and his argument and generally with the arguments of those that describe themselves as 'libertarian'. I'm not trying to cast a huge brush here, it's an ideological issue. The idea is to neuter a policy project or direction, and then point to it's inefficiency or lack of return on investment. Sowell does the same thing in regards to school vouchers. Again, I can't critique him toooooo hard here because I am not intimately versed with that issue, however, it's an example of the conclusion based research I believe he is guilty of.

The minimum wage SUCKS. It is ARTIFICIALLY low. It's held there by the mechanism for lobbying the federal government and state legislatures which is of benefit to accumulated private money. It is held there by those with a vested interest in not paying higher wages. It isn't rocket science to figure out what part of the employer/employee relationship that is.

If you think politicians are buying votes with the minimum wage where it is, I suggest you reconsider what votes they are buying. I will give a you a start, it is NOT the populous.

[FFR]

Originally Posted by nik-

No, I'm just saying we already subsidize it, but as the cost of living continues to outpace the increase of minimum wage, the subsidies have to increase to fill that gap and that can be avoided.

Basically what we're doing now is subsidizing shareholder value through taxes.

Ok so this addresses my question about the people who are already earning more than minimum wage.

But if we raise minimum wage, the people who were getting government subsidies probably aren't now. But costs of goods have still gone up. So best case scenario, these people earn more money, lose the government subsidies and have to pay more for basic necessities?

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Just out of curiosity, where do you live where you can live off of $1000 a month?

our rent is 500, my car is 275 but she makes about 750/month part time
but we save, save, and save and save some more. We don't spend unless we really have to

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by PIMking

our rent is 500, my car is 275 but she makes about 750/month part time
but we save, save, and save and save some more. We don't spend unless we really have to

The standard should be higher than this.

You deserve more.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The standard should be higher than this.

You deserve more.

Yeah man, you're getting a raw deal, even with the lower standard of living. You should honestly think about reaching out to CP and see if anyone is in the hospitality industry up here and follow your buddy Nicker up to Calgary.

In terms of climate, politics, culture and all that, it would be a bit of a change, but I'm pretty confident with your experience you'd likely be looking at around $25/hr minimum. And that would likely be you taking a slightly lesser position to get your foot in the door (didn't realize you were the assistant GM, just thought you were a front desk manager).

I'm sure you'd be in the $55-$70k range, depending on size of hotel/position within a few years no problem in this city.

[RougeUnderoos]

Okay easy now. I think you meant "cost of living", not "standard", and let's not pretend that the roads here are paved with anything other than asphalt and snow.

I have no idea what hotel staff in this town make, but my guess it would all come pretty close to evening out in the end. $500 rent? If you don't want to live in an unheated garage, you aren't going to find that here. I did some serious research (I googled Tuscaloosa real estate) and a nice looking two bedroom 1300 s.f. house was on sale for 136 grand. An equivalent house could be triple that here, if not more.

If a guy can live on the cheap, that's a good thing, not a bad thing.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Okay easy now. I think you meant "cost of living", not "standard", and let's not pretend that the roads here are paved with anything other than asphalt and snow.

I have no idea what hotel staff in this town make, but my guess it would all come pretty close to evening out in the end. $500 rent? If you don't want to live in an unheated garage, you aren't going to find that here. I did some serious research (I googled Tuscaloosa real estate) and a nice looking two bedroom 1300 s.f. house was on sale for 136 grand. An equivalent house could be triple that here, if not more.

If a guy can live on the cheap, that's a good thing, not a bad thing.

Yeah, true. I got all excited over the low wage lol.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Okay easy now. I think you meant "cost of living", not "standard", and let's not pretend that the roads here are paved with anything other than asphalt and snow.

I have no idea what hotel staff in this town make, but my guess it would all come pretty close to evening out in the end. $500 rent? If you don't want to live in an unheated garage, you aren't going to find that here. I did some serious research (I googled Tuscaloosa real estate) and a nice looking two bedroom 1300 s.f. house was on sale for 136 grand. An equivalent house could be triple that here, if not more.

If a guy can live on the cheap, that's a good thing, not a bad thing.

Finally.

Was hoping someone would say this. More money isn't always better.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The standard should be higher than this.

You deserve more.

the best part is that I'm not on any government assistance. The only thing that I don't pay for is our phones. Her dad has that on the family plan.

I had to get food stamps when we first moved here because I couldn't find a job.

oh well, good things come to those who work hard

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Okay easy now. I think you meant "cost of living", not "standard", and let's not pretend that the roads here are paved with anything other than asphalt and snow.

I have no idea what hotel staff in this town make, but my guess it would all come pretty close to evening out in the end. $500 rent? If you don't want to live in an unheated garage, you aren't going to find that here. I did some serious research (I googled Tuscaloosa real estate) and a nice looking two bedroom 1300 s.f. house was on sale for 136 grand. An equivalent house could be triple that here, if not more.

If a guy can live on the cheap, that's a good thing, not a bad thing.

you're correct but her father owns the home and we're paying him $500 a month for it

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Okay easy now. I think you meant "cost of living", not "standard", and let's not pretend that the roads here are paved with anything other than asphalt and snow.

I have no idea what hotel staff in this town make, but my guess it would all come pretty close to evening out in the end. $500 rent? If you don't want to live in an unheated garage, you aren't going to find that here. I did some serious research (I googled Tuscaloosa real estate) and a nice looking two bedroom 1300 s.f. house was on sale for 136 grand. An equivalent house could be triple that here, if not more.

If a guy can live on the cheap, that's a good thing, not a bad thing.

Yeah, IIRC PMKing posted some pictures of his yard and it is big with some trees and a nice lawn. I doubt you could find a place like that in Calgary.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by PIMking

you're correct but her father owns the home and we're paying him $500 a month for it

Ah, that makes more sense then. I remember you posted pics of your house and I thought "$500 for that!!". Don't you have like an acre of land with it too?

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Yeah man, you're getting a raw deal, even with the lower standard of living. You should honestly think about reaching out to CP and see if anyone is in the hospitality industry up here and follow your buddy Nicker up to Calgary.

In terms of climate, politics, culture and all that, it would be a bit of a change, but I'm pretty confident with your experience you'd likely be looking at around $25/hr minimum. And that would likely be you taking a slightly lesser position to get your foot in the door (didn't realize you were the assistant GM, just thought you were a front desk manager).

I'm sure you'd be in the $55-$70k range, depending on size of hotel/position within a few years no problem in this city.

Tuscaloosa isn't the "hot spot" for hospitality. Now if I were to move to Lakeland (tampa) or a vacation/resort town I would make much more than what I am at now.

In all honesty once the fiance graduates and say I get the GM job at 40k she makes roughly 12k a year we can live very nice on 52k.

It's not about how much you make, it's what you do with it. look at how many football players are broke so fast. if they put their signing bonus in a savings account they would have a ton of interest.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Ah, that makes more sense then. I remember you posted pics of your house and I thought "$500 for that!!". Don't you have like an acre of land with it too?

Yeah. 22k sqft front yard.

he said if she goes to pharmacy school in b'ham that he'd probably just give it to us.

I think he took a big hit on it from when he bought it so he basically is waiting for the market to come back.

the good news is that the people around us are starting to feel ashamed because of all the yard work and "curb appeal" I've done and started to do the same thing too so it's looking nice all around our place.

But in reality you can buy a nice little house for 60k here, nothing fancy but not a dump either. A real nice home can be around 120k.

plus property taxes are DIRT cheap, but that's why the education system is f'ed here. Another thing is they tax groceries.... I don't understand that....

I would love to run for office to raise property taxes slightly to help the schools and get rid of the grocery tax since that really hurts the poor even more. I would be considered a communist liberal if I did that lol

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah, IIRC PMKing posted some pictures of his yard and it is big with some trees and a nice lawn. I doubt you could find a place like that in Calgary.

something interesting about our place is we got the original deed and all the paperwork for it.

I remember that no black people were to live in the house and if they were to live on property it had to be in different barracks.

our next door neibours just renovated their kitchen and it had two different wood floors because the black people weren't good enough for the other stuff.

Our house was built in the late 1800's it's amazing how far we've came but still have a ways to go.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Yeah. 22k sqft front yard.

he said if she goes to pharmacy school in b'ham that he'd probably just give it to us.

I think he took a big hit on it from when he bought it so he basically is waiting for the market to come back.

the good news is that the people around us are starting to feel ashamed because of all the yard work and "curb appeal" I've done and started to do the same thing too so it's looking nice all around our place.

But in reality you can buy a nice little house for 60k here, nothing fancy but not a dump either. A real nice home can be around 120k.

plus property taxes are DIRT cheap, but that's why the education system is f'ed here. Another thing is they tax groceries.... I don't understand that....

I would love to run for office to raise property taxes slightly to help the schools and get rid of the grocery tax since that really hurts the poor even more. I would be considered a communist liberal if I did that lol

Meanwhile in Calgary....

$420k!!!! And it's sold!

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by nik-

Bad Cannstat, Baden-Württemberg, Deutschland

that's where I was born but I put that on there because I asked if the russian guy (pointman?) if he was actually Russian or just lived there and someone pointed out that it said "moscow" so I made it a point to change it showing that anyone can put anything

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Azure

That is only acceptable if we consider minimum wage jobs to be the 'first job' type jobs. Start at minimum wage and work yourself up. If that is the case I have no problem helping subsidize that person while he is moving up the ladder until he has a job where he doesn't need welfare.

Problem is lots of people just work minimum wage jobs and don't really move up any ladder.

Personally I think anyone that makes a half decent living and shops at Walmart is a moron simply because Walmart treats their workers like garbage.

I don't see the connection you're making. Are you saying we shouldn't subsidize people who don't have the potential to earn (through their productivity) whatever we determine a living wage to be? What is your solution for that problem? Because boycotting Walmart doesn't get their employees higher pay - it gets them unemployed.