Mark's new return policy sucks

[ken0042]

Pylon- that's good that you can afford to pay for dry cleaning of shirts; and that you can afford to have that many dress shirts. However I think a lot of you guys are piling onto the OP for the sake of piling on.

A dress shirt should last more than 25 uses; especially without coming apart. I have 4 year old shirts from Marks that have lasted many times longer than that. They are designed to be washed and worn without having to use a dry cleaner. Why would you buy a "never iron" shirt if you planned on getting it dry cleaned?

I also have had Marks in the past offer to replace a shirt that was ~8 months old when I told them I was replacing it because a seam was coming apart. It was in part that business practice that kept me coming back, and had great success with dress shorts for many years. However the two that are starting to lose threads are less than a year old. The quality is no longer there.

So many of us bought clothes there based on the quality, and the fact that Marks used to stand behind their word that their products were good quality. Now that they realized they no longer have good quality, so goes the guarantee as well.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by pylon

Going by the OP's expectation of the policy, he should be entitled to free shirts for life. That is an unreasonable expectation.

So your answer is "no".

Which I think is fair.

Now let's not mix up what the actual policy was versus what the expectation is.

[taco.vidal]

Are you implying that you dry-clean your dress shirts?

Most dress shirts are some sort of cotton blend and when you drop them off at the dry cleaners they are "laundered" not "dry cleaned". In Calgary, the rate for laundering a mens dress shirt and returning it on a hanger is around $4. Dry cleaning is actually pretty harsh on fabrics and having shirt dry-cleaned is typically over $10 depending on the fabric. You can definitely be more gentle on your dress shirts by washing them at home rather than having them go through an industrial wash and press(which kills buttons).

Originally Posted by pylon

Secondly, don't cheap out, and dry clean your shirts, and they will last twice as long.

[Titan]

I can't believe I just read 87 posts about some guy returning shirts. Wow. I am a little ashamed.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by pylon

I would be too ashamed of myself to return an item of clothing I wore more than once. But 25 times....... that is simply abusing the system. At any given time I typically have about 20 dress shirts in my closet I rotate through, which is about 13 wears / shirt / year factoring in weekends where I don't wear them. That would be like walking into the Bay 2 years later saying..... "Yeah, this two year old shirt sucks. Where's my money?" I have too much pride to do something like that.

I'm sorry, isn't it kinda embarrassing going in with a washed out, tattered shirt, looking for Fr33 ShirtZ? If you expect their business model to be sustainable, you can't expect them to take back, tattered, over washed, used clothing. I think the OP is missing the whole point of the return policy. You are not working within the spirit of the policy, you are going by the letter of it. Mark's is equally stupid for having such a ridiculous policy in the first place, with the amount of scammers that abuse the system.

Secondly, don't cheap out, and dry clean your shirts, and they will last twice as long.

The never irons were / are marketed to the guys who have to use dress shirts 5 days a week, the "business casual" employee. They aren't for formals and I don't think they even recommend dry cleaning them.

I mentioned in my first post that I had been a Mark's customer for 10 years and only took advantage of their return policy twice before that. Infact, you've got guys here referencing boot rental without so much of a snear in their direction, but I digress.

One of those dress shirts I buy is usually worn once a week, every week. Am I completely delusional expecting that it is going to last longer than that? Maybe. But I know that since I have bought a lot of their never irons, I've had a ton last longer than that. Ones that have stood up 2 years that are still in my closet + and I've also got some Eddie Bauers that do to the job as well, which have been washed in the hundreds of times.

[ricosuave]

I think that the title of this thread should read "Mark's old return policy was incredibly generous!"

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

The never irons were / are marketed to the guys who have to use dress shirts 5 days a week, the "business casual" employee. They aren't for formals and I don't think they even recommend dry cleaning them.

I mentioned in my first post that I had been a Mark's customer for 10 years and only took advantage of their return policy twice before that. Infact, you've got guys here referencing boot rental without so much of a snear in their direction, but I digress.

One of those dress shirts I buy is usually worn once a week, every week. Am I completely delusional expecting that it is going to last longer than that? Maybe. But I know that since I have bought a lot of their never irons, I've had a ton last longer than that. Ones that have stood up 2 years that are still in my closet + and I've also got some Eddie Bauers that do to the job as well, which have been washed in the hundreds of times.

The boot rental plan was what some employees called it actually. I hate returning things, even when its totally legitimate, never mind to save some money.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

The never irons were / are marketed to the guys who have to use dress shirts 5 days a week, the "business casual" employee. They aren't for formals and I don't think they even recommend dry cleaning them.

I mentioned in my first post that I had been a Mark's customer for 10 years and only took advantage of their return policy twice before that. Infact, you've got guys here referencing boot rental without so much of a snear in their direction, but I digress.

One of those dress shirts I buy is usually worn once a week, every week. Am I completely delusional expecting that it is going to last longer than that? Maybe. But I know that since I have bought a lot of their never irons, I've had a ton last longer than that. Ones that have stood up 2 years that are still in my closet + and I've also got some Eddie Bauers that do to the job as well, which have been washed in the hundreds of times.

Are you hang drying the shirts because that will increase the life dramatically. You are shopping at Marks Work Wearhouse as well, I don't know what types of shirts you were expecting to find there, but high quality dress shirts wouldn't be at the top of my list. You get what you pay for and the shirts that you get at those types of retailers are those that I would expect to last for 4-6 months of constant use.

[AndyL]

Meh, I'll agree with OP in some respects...

Can't say as I've ever returned a shirt to marks (but I usually tear the crap out of mine by my own hand - not due to any other reason). But it was the only way to get a year out of a pair of cat steel-toes (seams along the sole would tear/disintegrate).

But another company pissed me off to no end last year - by being asshats and changing their warranty policy 3 months after I purchased a new tool (not consumer, or prosumer grade) I was willing to spend double on a tool - only because of the 2 year no cost warranty - with over the counter exchanges... They took away over the counter exchanges - and switched to 'we'll ship it to vancouver, you should have it back in 10 days'. I've worked with these guys for a LONG time - I was sold on that warranty/exchange policy... Because it saved me time and money - thus I didn't balk at paying twice as much for that tool as a dewalt/milwaukee/etc.

I'll never buy a tool from them again. Nor will I pay to repair theirs... Once they're done - they go in the trash; replace their 1 tool with 2 replacement consumer grade tools (and pocket some cash).

Marks did use their satisfaction guarantee warranty as a selling tool - to change it without grandfathering, is pretty flipping shady.

There really do need to be laws about retroactive changes to warranty, post sale... Especially when the company is always marketing on that warranty.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

You are shopping at Marks Work Wearhouse as well, I don't know what types of shirts you were expecting to find there, but high quality dress shirts wouldn't be at the top of my list.

How about durable dress shirts? Marks used to be known for durable work wear; and that is what those of us who bought those shirts over the years came to expect.

As mentioned, the older ones have served me well. Being in IT I often find myself crawling under a desk to hook something up. It was nice to not have to worry about the shirt being able to handle that kind of stress occasionally.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by AndyL

But another company pissed me off to no end last year - by being asshats and changing their warranty policy 3 months after I purchased a new tool (not consumer, or prosumer grade) I was willing to spend double on a tool - only because of the 2 year no cost warranty - with over the counter exchanges... They took away over the counter exchanges - and switched to 'we'll ship it to vancouver, you should have it back in 10 days'. I've worked with these guys for a LONG time - I was sold on that warranty/exchange policy... Because it saved me time and money - thus I didn't balk at paying twice as much for that tool as a dewalt/milwaukee/etc.

I'll never buy a tool from them again. Nor will I pay to repair theirs... Once they're done - they go in the trash; replace their 1 tool with 2 replacement consumer grade tools (and pocket some cash).

Marks did use their satisfaction guarantee warranty as a selling tool - to change it without grandfathering, is pretty flipping shady.

There really do need to be laws about retroactive changes to warranty, post sale... Especially when the company is always marketing on that warranty.

I'm curious which store and tool brand you are talking about.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by ken0042

How about durable dress shirts? Marks used to be known for durable work wear; and that is what those of us who bought those shirts over the years came to expect.

As mentioned, the older ones have served me well. Being in IT I often find myself crawling under a desk to hook something up. It was nice to not have to worry about the shirt being able to handle that kind of stress occasionally.

I don't think that you can expect any dress shirt to hold up indefinitely, if you are crawling around on the ground every once in a while that is especially true. A dress shirt last with abuse for 20-25 washes is in my view being quite durable. That isn't a manufactures defect; that is wear and tear on a relatively cheap dress shirt... which shouldn't be covered by the warranty.

[Devils'Advocate]

I used to shop at Marks all the time. It was my go-to store until Canadian Tire bought them. They used to have good quality Canadian-made goods. I never, ever returned anything there. Never had the occasion to... they all lasted forever.

However, now it's all Bangladesh or Cambodia and I've had so many quality issues... I didn't return them even if they only lasted 6 months. But I have stopped shopping there.

On that note, I can't find ANYWHERE that does carry Canadian-made dress shirts. I can get socks at Target, underwear at the Bay, sweatshirts at Roots.... but dress shirts seem impossible to find.

Given the quality of their merchandise, I fully understand Mark's need to change their policy. Solution: just don't go there any more.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Antonio Valente and Lipson make Canadian made dress shirts and while they are high quality the price reflects that. At the end of the day if someone is expecting a high quality garment they should expect to pay a premium for the product.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I don't think that you can expect any dress shirt to hold up indefinitely, if you are crawling around on the ground every once in a while that is especially true. A dress shirt last with abuse for 20-25 washes is in my view being quite durable. That isn't a manufactures defect; that is wear and tear on a relatively cheap dress shirt... which shouldn't be covered by the warranty.

I think we are saying the same thing here. You have lower expectations; like I did when I bought my first Marks shirt. For years the quality and warranty exceeded my expectations, and a few dozen shirts later my expectations are now higher; based entirely upon my experiences. (I say a few dozen as they typically lasted about 2-3 years based upon my usage. So I have cycled through many of them over the years.)

Have you owned one of these shirts anytime in 2-6 years ago? Keep in mind, these shirts are not soft like you would expect from a normal dress shirt. Brand new and in the washer, it would take several minutes before it would even get wet. The shirts were designed to be work shirts that looked like dress shirts. They were not dress shirts that happened to be sold at a work clothing store.

That changed, because they found a cheaper way to make them. Then they found people were bringing them back, and had to change their warranty retroactively.

You are right, I would not expect a department store dress shirt to last 20-25 washes and be put through it's paces physically. However with these shirts being priced 50% more than a department store shirt, there was value there. Not any longer.

[AndyL]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I'm curious which store and tool brand you are talking about.

I massacred them on another forum (tool specific) - but they specialize in concrete Red logo with white writing. If you work construction - you know exactly who I'm referring to - throw 2 year no cost warranty into google and they're on that first page

Since I've already pushed them to sending cease and desist letters in one case - perhaps as the FNG I'll stay away from naming them.

Edit - on the shirt topic - i've got a dozen red kap crew shirts coming - can't wait to see how they wear. Heard good things, little more casual than what i'd normally buy, but a bit more stylish too (if you call a bowling shirt stylish?)