02-23-2014, 01:57 PM
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#81
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jan 2014
Exp:  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PIMking
I can tell you that if I was in the shoes of the people of Kiev I would be doing the same damn thing.
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Ditto. Also if I were Iraqi and American tanks rolled into my town you best bet I would be laying down IEDs and downing as many invaders (sorry liberators) as possible.
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02-23-2014, 02:06 PM
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#82
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sylvan Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turner
Ditto. Also if I were Iraqi and American tanks rolled into my town you best bet I would be laying down IEDs and downing as many invaders (sorry liberators) as possible.
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So the security forces in the Ukraine are from another country......you know every post you make does not have to contain a troll...
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02-24-2014, 04:11 PM
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#83
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Calgary
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Seems like the Olympics ending has kicked Russian policy making back in high gear. Russia has branded the interim government "mutineers" and is denouncing their new anti-Russian policies
Quote:
However, Russia's foreign ministry also issued a strongly worded statement saying a "forced change of power" was taking place in Ukraine and accused interim leaders of passing new laws "aimed at infringing the humanitarian rights of Russians and other ethnic minorities".
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26327211
They have started issuing passports to Ukrainians in the eastern regions, which is exactly what was done in South Ossetia before the Georgian Russian war. Will we see the beginnings of a forced partitioning of East and West Ukraine?
Quote:
Russia is starting to give out passports under a simplified procedure. Russia demands the fulfillment of the conditions of the agreements between the opposition and Yanukovych. And the main thing is that in the event of a decision of the Crimeans to have a referendum, or an appeal to the Supreme Council of the Crimea to Russia with a request to annex…Russia will review this question very quickly. Tsekov and Aksyonov mumbled, spoke about integrity and the Russian Word festival.”
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http://www.interpretermag.com/ukrain...ictators/#2200
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02-24-2014, 04:24 PM
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#84
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Edmonton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PIMking
How much different is the Ukrainian language compared to Russian?
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There are some differences. I have a very basic understanding of Russian and could get by fine using that in Ukraine. The alphabet is slightly different but not enough to cause any issues and most Ukrainians seem to understand Russian.
We went to Independance Square on Jan 19th, the day that things turned violent. It was fine when we were there but there was definitely a ton of energy in the crowd with speakers being broadcast across the square and on a huge screen. I walked through the protest a bit but it got so crowded that I turned around and left. About one person in ten was wearing a pot on their head to circumvent/protest the new law banning helmets.
We didn't go back to the protest site during the trip but we never felt unsafe in Kiev.
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02-24-2014, 04:26 PM
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#85
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Has lived the dream!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Where I lay my head is home...
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Nothing to add except that it angers me so much that Russia dares to say that when the change in government was obviously brought on BY THE PEOPLE.
It's even more one sided than what happened in Egypt, because you haven't seen any backlash, by other minority groups that did like the leadership. But Russia with their claws in, gotta spin it the way the need.
I hope we see a lot of support from the US, Europe, and Canada for pro democratic reforms in the Ukraine.
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02-26-2014, 08:32 AM
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#86
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Russia has been testing their combat readiness raising fears that they may interfere:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...mea-separatism
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...mea-separatism
They did invade Georgia a few years ago to under similar circumstances to maintain Russian control and influence in South Ossetia. Still, interference in Ukraine would most like end up pretty messy.
Pro-Russian demonstrations also took place in Crimea, however 10,000 Crimean Tatars took to the streets to support the interim Ukraine government and most Tatar groups have declared themselves on the side of the revolutionaries and desire closer ties with Europe.
http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140226/187...ars-Clash.html
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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02-26-2014, 08:35 AM
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#87
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sylvan Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction
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The Olympics are over, now Putin can go back to being Putin......
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
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02-26-2014, 11:11 AM
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#88
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Calgary
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Well if it follows the pattern of the Georgian-Russian war Russia will do the following:
1. Issue passports to rebels and separatists in the area
2. Put in peacekeepers so the separatists and the federal government don't fight each other
3. Agitate through the rebels and separatists until the federal government sends in the military to restore order
4. Somewhere down the line in the powderkeg situation someone with a itchy trigger finger will fire the first shot
5. Russia sends in the Red army (Russian military) to restore order under the guise of protecting Russian citizens and passport holders.
6. Russia annexes separatists regions through friendly regimes ala. Eastern block gov't style and profits.
Not really sure though whether these exercises are a move towards a military buildup or just chest thumping to push and protect their interests in Sevastopol. I guess we'll see soon enough.
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02-26-2014, 12:40 PM
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#89
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Norm!
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From what I've read, the Russians had already sent in MP's to aid, it doesn't take much to put someone in Military Intelligence in a MP uniform to start gathering intelligence and to stir things up.
On top of that MP's are not only great for enforcing the law, but to provide traffic control and seize key traffic points ahead of an invading army.
I'm not saying that the Russians are mobilizing, but this is a logical first step towards that kind of end game.
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02-26-2014, 01:51 PM
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#90
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: 780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brannigans Law
If Russia rolls tanks into Crimea that's kind of a big deal and could have enormous implications. I think a peaceful split of Western Ukraine and Eastern Ukraine is ideal; eastern Ukrainians are more Russian anyways. Let them have their own capital in Donetsk and be a puppet state for the Russians or go full Russia.
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IMO the last thing Russia want is for the Ukraine to split or for the eastern part to become part of Russia... if Ukraine is divisible, then so is Russia.
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02-26-2014, 03:41 PM
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#91
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Calgary
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In Sevastopol the Pro-Russian armed militias have taken control of parts of the city. Supported by armored personnel carriers, the group has raised Russian flags and established checkpoints in and outside the city. Meanwhile the opposing unarmed political groups have started demonstrating against each other in two key cities in East Ukraine. Seems like the situation is escalating. Hopefully it doesn't get agitated further like in Georgia.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle17110382/
Last edited by FlameOn; 02-26-2014 at 05:05 PM.
Reason: a word
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02-26-2014, 03:57 PM
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#92
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Franchise Player
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Jesus.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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02-26-2014, 04:26 PM
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#93
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Calgary AB
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not good,
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by puckluck2
Well, deal with it. I wasn't cheering for Canada either way. Nothing worse than arrogant Canadian fans. They'd be lucky to finish 4th. Quote me on that. They have a bad team and that is why I won't be cheering for them.
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02-26-2014, 04:32 PM
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#94
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlameOn
In Sevastopol the Pro-Russian armed militias have taken control of parts of the city. Supported an armored personnel carriers, the group has raised Russian flags and established checkpoints in and outside the city. Meanwhile the opposing unarmed political groups have started demonstrating against each other in two key cities in East Ukraine. Seems like the situation is escalating. Hopefully it doesn't get agitated further like in Georgia.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle17110382/
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I don't want to be a pessimist here, but things sound ready to completely fall apart.
Any chance Russia can get this group to back off at all?
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02-26-2014, 04:35 PM
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#95
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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This is getting out of hand, can we not all discuss this over pleasant meal of borscht and vodka?
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If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
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02-26-2014, 04:40 PM
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#96
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirant
I don't want to be a pessimist here, but things sound ready to completely fall apart.
Any chance Russia can get this group to back off at all?
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Chances are that Russia wrote these guys a check and gave em an attaboy in their annual performance review.
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02-26-2014, 04:44 PM
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#97
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
Chances are that Russia wrote these guys a check and gave em an attaboy in their annual performance review.
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Or they're just straight up Russians.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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02-26-2014, 04:54 PM
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#98
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 Posted the 6 millionth post!
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This sounds like some prelude to a Command and Conquer game.
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02-26-2014, 05:03 PM
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#99
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Franchise Player
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Ukraine needs to build Tesla Coils.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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02-26-2014, 05:32 PM
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#100
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Vancouver
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It's the same shtick that happened in Egypt. There is always one group that is willing to make a deal with the opposition. It happens in every revolution. When one side is backed by the Russians and given free reign essentially, this is what happens.
Prior to this, the opposition was looking strong. If you want status quo and you are losing, introduce some violence into the equation and everything falls apart.
Revolutions do not occur over 2 weeks, they take years. What we are seeing is the unfortunate progression. Who will "win" is still very much unknown, but it will cost more blood.
Edit:
Also, the article says
Quote:
The Globe and Mail saw least a dozen men wearing fatigues – supported by an armoured personnel carrier – standing under a Russian flag at a checkpoint erected roughly halfway along the 80-kilometre road from Sevastopol to Simferopol,
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A dozen men makes a section. We're a far ways off from having a company of armed Russians in Crimea, so I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves here as well.
One other thing I want to ask: is there a way to "tell" who is Ukrainian and who si Russian? When the USSR broke up, many of the independent states banished Russians who had moved or been moved to the area who did not assimilate to their particular culture.
This is easy to see in Central Asia in places like Kazakhstan Tajikistan Uzbekistan etc. The native people of these countries are certainly Central Asian, and you can see it in their faces.
I work with a Russian who was born in Kazakhstan. Stalin forced his grandfather to move from Moscow to Kazakhstan to build the railroad. When the USSR split up, they told all the native Russians to learn Kazak and assimilate, or get out. He left for Canada.
With the Ukraine, this situation is likely much more difficult as they can not really force Russians not to live there. I am assuming I could not tell the difference between a Ukrainian and a Russian as a westerner.
I'm not advocating kicking Russians out of Ukraine, but I think the central asian states are likely more stable having reduced the Russian population within their borders. If there are no Russian citizens in the country, it makes it much more difficult for Putin or others influence the country.
Last edited by worth; 02-26-2014 at 05:46 PM.
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