Cities flying pride flags during Olympics; Support it?

[ranchlandsselling]

Originally Posted by strombad

If you don't like it, fine. But don't make thinly veiled excuses that simply hide your own lack of compassion or prejudice. The "bigger issues" complex is a well documented excuse used by people not wishing to reveal their negative prejudices.

RE: Phony/Waste of time
Get over yourselves.


If you couldn't tell, I fully support it. It's an incredibly small but nice gesture.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to collect some clothes for the homeless, I won't let the conflict in Syria or homosexual rights stop me, because, you know, I'm a functioning human being.

Originally Posted by MattyC

That's fine, then can we not be so arrogant as to assume that because there has been a process to get this put up (and it is the job of the government to process citizens requests, no matter how trivial, if they put it through the proper channels. No different than a mom wanting a "children at play" sign put up in a neighborhood), that other "more important" processes are being interupted?

I haven't seen anyone call you a bigot or racist or anything. Just the notion that it's a waste of time and resources seems pretty outlandish given the small amount spent.

Pretty offensive post.

And your post, yeah, we can assume that (did you mean ignorant vs. arrogant) and I'd actually prefer there was no process and it just got put up vs. a big debate/discussion/approval process - and it's fair of me to suggest a "children at play" sign in a neighborhood has a more positive impact on protecting kids getting hit by cars than a flag has on the LGBT community in Calgary or on Russian politics. Which I'm allowed to have without being accused of having a lack of sympathy, prejudices or a sarcastic accusation that I'm not a functioning human.

I think flamewin's attitude and the above post are far more ignorant/rude than anything I posted.

[Rhettzky]

I'm 100% for it. It's a simple statement saying that you might not be welcome in that country, but you are here. It's easy to do and sends a message to our citizens and the rest of the world as well. As for the arguments about using resources, I can't imagine it cost a whole lot. Even if it totalled $5,000 with administration and wage for the guy hanging the flag I don't see that as a big deal.

And the guy who brought up raising a straight flag, are straight people in need of support in any way? I just don't get that line of thinking.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

Pretty offensive post.

And your post, yeah, we can assume that (did you mean ignorant vs. arrogant) and I'd actually prefer there was no process and it just got put up vs. a big debate/discussion/approval process - and it's fair of me to suggest a "children at play" sign in a neighborhood has a more positive impact on protecting kids getting hit by cars than a flag has on the LGBT community in Calgary or on Russian politics. Which I'm allowed to have without being accused of having a lack of sympathy, prejudices or a sarcastic accusation that I'm not a functioning human.

I think flamewin's attitude and the above post are far more ignorant/rude than anything I posted.

Is someone proposing to cut funding to the City's street sign program in order to put up a flag? No, so why the straw man?

[Bill Bumface]

I don't agree with people saying "It does nothing".

Its a slow and long process, but as more official and unofficial displays of support come out for the LGBT community, more people are shamed into modernizing their views on it.

I look at my grandpa, he grew up in a totally racist and homophobic family. His views are now lightyears ahead of his other family members from... shocking... Russia, as he's lived in a place where you are made to feel shame for being a racist or a homophobe and public messages like these all add up to say "It's not ok to treat these people differently".

[Coach]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

Pretty offensive post.

And your post, yeah, we can assume that (did you mean ignorant vs. arrogant) and I'd actually prefer there was no process and it just got put up vs. a big debate/discussion/approval process - and it's fair of me to suggest a "children at play" sign in a neighborhood has a more positive impact on protecting kids getting hit by cars than a flag has on the LGBT community in Calgary or on Russian politics. Which I'm allowed to have without being accused of having a lack of sympathy, prejudices or a sarcastic accusation that I'm not a functioning human.

I think flamewin's attitude and the above post are far more ignorant/rude than anything I posted.

Yeah ignorant. For some reason i thought your post said arrogant.

It seems like your problem is that there is a process at all, not that the flag is being set up. Well that's how democratic governments work. Sorry. Yes it's bureaucratic, but there's not really any other choice. In the sign example, the impact is really irrelavent. Some people got together and put in motion the process to have the sign/the flag put up. And thus, it got done. If someone had done the same for Egypt or Syria or whatever, they may have also had success, who knows.

I'm not sure how my post is offensive.

[Travis Munroe]

I was surprised at the results in voting for #2

Not being in support of it has nothing to do with my thoughts on the gay community. What is the purpose? To me the flag is something of several years ago when the movement was gaining traction. It is common knowledge that gay/lesbian are accepted in our society.... I would prefer to see some sort of permanent symbol at arrivals in the airport.

[ranchlandsselling]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

Is someone proposing to cut funding to the City's street sign program in order to put up a flag? No, so why the straw man?

This is getting tiresome. The extremes that some posters like to jump to in order to prove a point or throw out their "straw man, straw man, look, a straw man comment" is so annoying.

At any point in that post did I say that the child at play sign was more important and that by picking one over the other meant that both couldn't be done? NO. I said one (in my opinion) is a more worthy use of resoursces than the other.

And we do live in a world of finite resources. I don't want politicians spending more money and time on a gun registry when that time could be better put towards other programs. It doesn’t mean I think that because they spend money on a gun registry it means that schools can’t be built. It’s like the damn trade threads. There’s no ability for some posters to just calmly take a middle view on something they read.

Done with this thread for the second day in a row because I have more important things to focus on, which amazingly doesn’t mean I can’t peruse other threads at a later point or even while doing those other things.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

Pretty offensive post.

And your post, yeah, we can assume that (did you mean ignorant vs. arrogant) and I'd actually prefer there was no process and it just got put up vs. a big debate/discussion/approval process - and it's fair of me to suggest a "children at play" sign in a neighborhood has a more positive impact on protecting kids getting hit by cars than a flag has on the LGBT community in Calgary or on Russian politics. Which I'm allowed to have without being accused of having a lack of sympathy, prejudices or a sarcastic accusation that I'm not a functioning human.

I think flamewin's attitude and the above post are far more ignorant/rude than anything I posted.

Twice you've directed negative energy towards me specifically. My post simply shared my view, and my own personal (as hypocritical as it may seem) INTOLERANCE of ignorant and intolerant people.

You? You throw up straw men like "what about other stuff" and "what about street signs!" as though they have any grounds in this discussion. They don't. Your reasons for not caring for the flag idea are your own, but I find that they are ignorant of the issues.

Think however you want to think, it's your right, just as it is my right to call certain patterns of thought ignorant and embarrassing. I'll be perfectly honest and say I didn't read more than a sentence or two of anything you've posted, no disrespect, I just find what little I read to be both disagreeable and using a line of thinking that I don't even remotely relate to, so my post wasn't directed at YOU. Sadly, if you did think my post was offensive or attacking you in some way, then I suspect you are guilty of some things I mentioned.

Again, raising a flag wastes no discernible time, energy, or money, and can be done while keeping in mind the plight of Syria, the homeless, other actions of city hall, and children crossing. It's truly amazing, but you CAN in fact show a small token of support for one cause without negatively affecting your workflow or the struggles of other causes. IMO, anyone who thinks that simple fact is untrue is ignorant.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by strombad

If you don't like it, fine. But don't make thinly veiled excuses that simply hide your own lack of compassion or prejudice.

Better than quoting scripture or saying that's just the way were raised... or saying they don't support and give no explanation.

I am finding that many people once opposed to gay rights have transitioned into the "I don't care" crowd. This is progressive imo. The reality is there are a lot of generational attitudes to work through in our society and I think it is positive that those once heavily against gay rights have softened their stance and now simply have a "no comment" outlook. You can't expect everything overnight.

[ranchlandsselling]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Yeah ignorant. For some reason i thought your post said arrogant.

It seems like your problem is that there is a process at all, not that the flag is being set up. Well that's how democratic governments work. Sorry. Yes it's bureaucratic, but there's not really any other choice. In the sign example, the impact is really irrelavent. Some people got together and put in motion the process to have the sign/the flag put up. And thus, it got done. If someone had done the same for Egypt or Syria or whatever, they may have also had success, who knows.

I'm not sure how my post is offensive.

Bolded part. The post by stromblad, not you

Re: your post. I don't have a problem and I know how things (democracy etc.) work and it's usually with great inefficiency. The OP was a question asking whether we're for or against. I simply said I was against because I think there's better things to be spending time/money on (via any channel whether it be the usual process or not). Then I simply mused one better way for me to spend my time and here we are.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by rayne008

I voted 2.

I am proud as a Canadian that all Canadians enjoy equal rights.

However I'm not a fan of the City using its resources for political messages, I just want my municipal government to be in the business of running the city.

Just out of curiosity (and please don't take this is a negative context) but do you also feel the same about the lowering of the flag to half mast during times of mourning or the lighting of the Calgary tower during certain ceremonies related to sport?

In my opinion, all things being equal, I couldn't justify caring about one and not the other. I'm fine with minor amounts of city resources being used for things unrelated to running a city.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

- and it's fair of me to suggest a "children at play" sign in a neighborhood has a more positive impact on protecting kids getting hit by cars than a flag has on the LGBT community in Calgary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_among_LGBT_youth

I'm not so sure. Suicide rates are still very high within the LGBT community. There is still work to be done so that they feel that they are not abnormal and that they have the right to love who they want free from ridicule and hate. Unfortunately, displaying the flags has had the opposite effect as it has opened them up to further bashing (city wasting resources on these people). If we had the flags up and it was unanimous, or near unanimous, and there was no controversy then it would have been a good thing. But instead it has uncovered that there are still a lot of people who are against showing support for a discriminated against community.

[ranchlandsselling]

Originally Posted by strombad

.

I just find what little I read to be both disagreeable and using a line of thinking that I don't even remotely relate to, so my post wasn't directed at YOU. Sadly, if you did think my post was offensive or attacking you in some way, then I suspect you are guilty of some things I mentioned.

A lot of words to just come back and do it again. Nice try.

Lol, now I'm really done. Last post. Don't need to go bertuzzied or turn into one of those threads that someone loses it.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Better than quoting scripture or saying that's just the way were raised... or saying they don't support and give no explanation.

I am finding that many people once opposed to gay rights have transitioned into the "I don't care" crowd. This is progressive imo. The reality is there are a lot of generational attitudes to work through in our society and I think it is positive that those once heavily against gay rights have softened their stance and now simply have a "no comment" outlook. You can't expect everything overnight.

I'm fine with "no comment" and "don't care". It's not everyone's duty to care, I just think it's worth being honest.

I think there is more dignity in saying you disagree with gay marriage than saying "well I don't like it because someone spent 10 minutes deciding to do it".

That's just me though, it's my problem to have.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

I would prefer to see some sort of permanent symbol at arrivals in the airport.

I was thinking at the provincial crossing between Alberta and Syskatchewan.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

A lot of words to just come back and do it again. Nice try.

Lol, now I'm really done. Last post. Don't need to go bertuzzied or turn into one of those threads that someone loses it.

Do what again? Try what?
Your business is your own. Feel however you want to feel, but don't make illogical excuses for feeling that way. Be who you are.

If you care more about minute city resources than showing support for human rights, that's FINE, but I'm comfortable letting you know that I will never in my life understand someone like that.

[NuclearPizzaMan]

Seems like an easy way to support something without actually putting any effort or meaning into it, so sure? why not I guess.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Byrns

Except the Germans flat out deny it has anything to do with the LGBT rights.

They have to deny it otherwise the IOC wouldn't allow them to wear them. The IOC has very strict rules about using uniforms to make a political statement.

One of the US Women's goalies had the "We the People" part of the US Constitution on the back plate of her mask, and the IOC made her change it because it could be seen as a political statement.

[rayne008]

Originally Posted by strombad

Just out of curiosity (and please don't take this is a negative context) but do you also feel the same about the lowering of the flag to half mast during times of mourning or the lighting of the Calgary tower during certain ceremonies related to sport?

In my opinion, all things being equal, I couldn't justify caring about one and not the other. I'm fine with minor amounts of city resources being used for things unrelated to running a city.

I wholeheartedly support the Canadian Flag (And provincial/city) being lowered to half mast..

Here is the link to the guidelines..
http://www.pch.gc.ca/eng/1311704914994

Half-masting of the Flag Notices
The following notices provide details about half-masting events in Canada, or in special circumstances, in a foreign country. See the Rules for Half-masting the National Flag of Canada for more information.

NOTICE OF HALF-MASTING
Masting Period:From sunrise to sunset on Saturday, February 1, 2014

Occasion:In memory of the victims and the families affected by the fire in L'Isle-Verte

Masting location(s):The flags on all Government of Canada buildings and establishments in the administrative region of the Lower St. Lawrence, Quebec.

Additional details:
Rules for Half-masting of the National Flag of Canada (Section 10)



Updated! NOTICE OF HALF-MASTING
Masting Period:From sunrise to sunset on Friday, December 6, 2013.

Occasion:National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women.

Masting location(s):Flags on all Government of Canada buildings and establishments across the country, including the Peace Tower in Ottawa, will be flown at half-mast from sunrise to sunset on Friday, December 6, 2013, to mark the National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women.

Additional details:
Rules for Half-masting the National Flag of Canada (Section 11)



Updated! NOTICE OF HALF-MASTING
Masting Period:From sunrise to sunset on Sunday, December 15, 2013, the day of the funeral.

Occasioneath of His Excellency Mr. Nelson Mandela, who passed away on December 5, 2013.

Masting location(s):Flags on all Government of Canada buildings and establishments across the country, including the Peace Tower in Ottawa.

Additional details:Rules for Half-masting of the National Flag of Canada (Section 16).

As for the Calgary tower, I'm also all for it, although I believe its done through the private sector.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

It is common knowledge that gay/lesbian are accepted in our society...

Really?

Violence against homosexuals is still alarming, and worse, GROWING:
http://www.wayves.ca/node/158

Incidents of bullying, harassment and taunting cause many to take their own life.

Almost half say that they have suffered some kind of discrimination due to their sexuality.

I don't think we can call homophobia dead. Far from it.