Sunshine List will expose six-figure salaries of Alberta government employees

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

No, you are a customer of the private business. Governments are hired by the people and work for the people.

As I said earlier, posting names may be going a bit too far, but posting position financials for each Government position is perfectly OK.

No. That is failing to appreciate that government is its own living organization.

I own shares in TD Bank. The bank is ultimately responsible to its shareholders. The shareholders elect a Board and officers are elected to implement strategic plans. If enough shareholders objected, a plan can be changed. I do not get to log onto TD's website and see how much the teller at the branch makes, even though I am a shareholder.

Same application for government. The government is accountable to the legislature (in theory) and the members of the leg are accountable to the electorate.

I see no value in this invasion of privacy. If Calgary employers were eager for some top quality talent they would be hitting up certain ministries and positions with aggressive offers in the New Year.

[Codes]

As a federal government employee in the biological sciences, it's not all roses. I am thankful for my position, and I am cognizant of the fact it can be taken from me at any point.

I have no problem with publishing the salaries of government employees, but I think attaching an individual's name is perhaps a bit much. I think anyone can already go and find my salary since I am unionized and the collective bargaining agreement is in the public domain.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

I think this will only serve to inflate salaries in the civil service. Anyone that has ever managed a team of people will know this:

"Becky makes $120,000 a year? I make only $95,000! She doesn't deserve that pay grade - I do 2x the work. Manager - I demand you raise my paygrade or I'll make your life miserable"

[Muta]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

As I posted earlier, the median household income in Alberta is $89k. That means that half the province's population has a total family income less than that. So please go on and explain how rough someone making $100k+ has it.

Agreed. I have a single parent friend that pulls in $40k and manages to make things work. Now THAT is a challenge.

Implying that one is scraping by at $100k is just pure arrogance.

[Laner99]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Considering how well luxury goods, high-end condos, high-end cars, trendy restaurants, and other moneyd things do in Calgary, it's no surprise that some people can't afford to live on 100k. I think the good times for many (but not all) have skewed everyone's perspective a bit in terms of what's normal.

While it's nice to see people getting rewarded for their efforts, sometimes I think Calgary could use a couple years of the Bust cycle, to shake everyone's priorities back in line a bit.

I could not agree more. The problem with Calgary is that it is a city of status, people feel they need to keep up with the next guy. Oh he has a range rover, I need a range rover, you just built a 3000sq ft home I need a 3000 sq ft home. People in Calgary who make a good living (say 80k a yr), feel the need to spend money like they make 200k then complain that they don't make enough. How many of us know someone with a brand new vehicle that cost in excess of 60k and a house with a 400k plus mortgage who make less than 100k a yr? U don't need a new car or a 400k mortgage, people in this city live in excess. When the bubble finally pops many people will be in big trouble.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Laner99

The problem with Calgary is that it is a city of status, people feel they need to keep up with the next guy.

I don't think Calgary has a keeping up with the Jonese problem. I have not problem with lawyers and the likes who require a lot of training making good coins. The problem I have is why is it so easy for some to make good coins. Like these 20 year olds with high school diploma driving a truck making $100K telling me his friend makes 200K driving trucks as well.

Why do we pay people that much to drive trucks? I know some physicians not making $200K with far more years of training.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by darklord700

I don't think Calgary has a keep up with the Jonese problem. I have not problem with lawyers and the likes who require a lot of training making good coins. The problem I have is why is it so easy for some to make good coins. Like these 20 year olds with high school diploma driving a truck making $100K telling me his friend makes 200K driving trucks as well.

Why do we pay people that much to drive trucks? I know some physicians not making $200K with far more years of training.

You'd be surprised how much people lie about how much they make. They make $500 one day (due to overtime and bonuses) and all they do is multiply it by 365 and suddenly it's 180k a year.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by darklord700

I don't think Calgary has a keep up with the Jonese problem. I have not problem with lawyers and the likes who require a lot of training making good coins. The problem I have is why is it so easy for some to make good coins. Like these 20 year olds with high school diploma driving a truck making $100K telling me his friend makes 200K driving trucks as well.

Why do we pay people that much to drive trucks? I know some physicians not making $200K with far more years of training.

As much as I hate to say it but I make far more than I feel my job is worth. However I work in less than optimal conditions (try going to the bathroom at -40 in a porta potty), managing people who barely scraped by the easier courses in high school, having a job where if your hand slips half an inch you could be killed/severely injured and I still make more than I feel I deserve. Yes I am in my mid 20s however there are some of us that take on a lot more responsibility than the stereotypes would suggest .

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

You'd be surprised how much people lie about how much they make. They make $500 one day (due to overtime and bonuses) and all they do is multiply it by 365 and suddenly it's 180k a year.

Ahhh, so it is like how people lie (to themselves and others) regarding their commute time.

[username]

There's no doubt that people lie about how much they make but that being said salaries in Calgary are totally insane.

At the oil and gas company I work for the average base salary is 124K per year. I often wonder what the average household income in Alberta would be if at least one income earner was in O&G.

It's insane how much people are making in this industry.......I just hope it lasts.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by username

There's no doubt that people lie about how much they make but that being said salaries in Calgary are totally insane.

At the oil and gas company I work for the average base salary is 124K per year. I often wonder what the average household income in Alberta would be if at least one income earner was in O&G.

It's insane how much people are making in this industry.......I just hope it lasts.

Some companies have downsized this year already, and some are going to be doing the same in 2014. I know it's not the singular reason for this, but I have to think that when you're tightening your purse strings to stay buoyant, these massive salaries aren't helping.

Didn't Encana just cut a swath of Geologists? As far as I know working in the industry, those folks were probably all six figures.

[username]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Didn't Encana just cut a swath of Geologists? As far as I know working in the industry, those folks were probably all six figures.

Ya there's no doubt it's already starting to happen. I wouldn't say a bust is imminent but it's certainly slowing down. If Keystone and Northern Gateway both get built then I think things might pick up again.

Encana is obviously a unique situation where they were heavily weighted to gas and that's obviously not where you want to be these days.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by darklord700

I don't think Calgary has a keeping up with the Jonese problem. I have not problem with lawyers and the likes who require a lot of training making good coins. The problem I have is why is it so easy for some to make good coins. Like these 20 year olds with high school diploma driving a truck making $100K telling me his friend makes 200K driving trucks as well.

Why do we pay people that much to drive trucks? I know some physicians not making $200K with far more years of training.

They also make a lot on OT. So a guy that claims to make 200k a year driving trucks is probably working someting like 14-12hr days and then 7 days off which is around a 2900hr year instead of a 2000hr year. So the acutal salary might be 80k but with OT and extra shifts ends up approaching 150k and then you round up to feel good.

[McG]

I have yet to see anything that justifies this invasion of privacy. Seriously, we can debate whether we should or shouldn't see names, salaries, etc., and that's a good debate to have, but is this not really the Alberta government diverting attention away from the real problem, which is where did all the money go? Civil Servants making over a certain sum of money didn't spend all of the money; that should all be covered under operating expenses and covered with tax revenues. Where is the Heritage Trust fund? That's Capital and should not be spent on operating expenses. This is nothing more than an attention diverter.

When a line item is published like position or salary or name, how does anyone know the investments made by that person to get the role? MBAs, Masters degrees, undergrad degrees, and all of the other training required costs alot of time and effort and yes, money to get. Why shouldn't someone that has invested in themselves be compensated more? How would the average Albertan know the requirements of a specific job? The only value here is to jealous coworkers, inquisitive family members, and nosey parker neighbours.

Put it another way, why should someone with their ticket, or multiple trade tickets, not be entitled to more money than an apprentice? How would you know that if it was a line item on a webpage with a name and salary?

As for quite a few posts on this thread lamenting spending, you really need to take a basic economics course. There is a little thing called the multiplier effect, and another little thing called the invisible hand. Inflation and interest rates are low, and anyone who is working or will be working soon better be hopeful this runs as long as it can, because no matter what you think of today's issues, it is far better than we have had in previous decades. In fact, maybe have a look around the world and be grateful for how we just weathered one of the worst financial storms ever.

On topic though, I find it a huge invasion of privacy when we have spent millions of dollars protecting privacy with various acts governing information, and then our elected representatives simply agree to waive those rights on behalf of people. Financial information is one of people's most carefully held secrets, and yet this diversion and the resulting firestorm will have a wide impact on people and their lives, and nothing of value to "where did the money go"?

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by McG

Financial information is one of people's most carefully held secrets, and yet this diversion and the resulting firestorm will have a wide impact on people and their lives, and nothing of value to "where did the money go"?

haha... what? most carefully held secret? Your salary?

No it isn't. At the end of the day nobody cares. People are only interested in other people's salaries so they can use it as a measuring stick for themselves.

What repercussions occur because your neighbour knows how much you make?

I'm not a big "secrets" guy in general though. In fact I think sometimes "secrets" and the reason for having one therefrom are most usually nefarious unless it is a relevant strategic / competitive advantage. A lot of times people will protect information and I'm not sure they've really thought out why. Who the #### cares how much you make, really?

If government employees in this province are making 100k, I certainly won't think they're overpaid but that's just me I guess and I do work in oil and gas so maybe I'm not based in reality.

[McG]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

haha... what? most carefully held secret? Your salary?

No it isn't. At the end of the day nobody cares. People are only interested in other people's salaries so they can use it as a measuring stick for themselves.

What repercussions occur because your neighbour knows how much you make?

I'm not a big "secrets" guy in general though. In fact I think sometimes "secrets" and the reason for having one therefrom are most usually nefarious unless it is a relevant strategic / competitive advantage. A lot of times people will protect information and I'm not sure they've really thought out why. Who the #### cares how much you make, really?

If government employees in this province are making 100k, I certainly won't think they're overpaid but that's just me I guess and I do work in oil and gas so maybe I'm not based in reality.

you don't think it is a big deal? I do. just because you don't care, doesn't mean others do or don't as well. in fact, we have PIPA and other laws to protect personal information. I should have put imho on my post however isn't that implied on the interwebz?

so prove you don't care and post your real name, job, salary, benefits and any package information available. while you are at it, go ahead and post some of your account balances too. you are right, most people wouldn't care, which I stated.

After you post that information, how do you feel about identity theft? it is a bit of a big deal, as it should be.

And you see how we are talking about the act itself of posting this personally identifiable information, instead of the actual, real need to post salaries or not.

That's the actual issue.

[Wormius]

What could you do with name and salary:

- Determine whose house would be the best one to commit a B & E or some kind of scam.
- Determine who to start targeting with ads or get attacked by hoards of financial
planners.
- Know who can be squeezed for more money when they go for auto repairs or any kind
of service.

It seems like a bunch of crap to deal with having your name and salary out there. And then you end up with the nuts who will complain that so and so city worker making > $100k should be working harder cause your potholes haven't been filled in yet.

[McG]

Originally Posted by Wormius

What could you do with name and salary:

- Determine whose house would be the best one to commit a B & E or some kind of scam.
- Determine who to start targeting with ads or get attacked by hoards of financial
planners.
- Know who can be squeezed for more money when they go for auto repairs or any kind
of service.

It seems like a bunch of crap to deal with having your name and salary out there. And then you end up with the nuts who will complain that so and so city worker making > $100k should be working harder cause your potholes haven't been filled in yet.

pull credit bureaus etc; it is personally identifiable information that can be used to make identity theft even easier.

[opendoor]

It's really not a big deal. They already do it in a lot of places and I've never once heard of an issue stemming from them and I have several relatives and friends whose name and salaries are public record due to them working for the BC government. If people want to find rich people to scam or whatever they'll just look for people in a rich neighborhood rather than chasing down middle managers in government.

And your name and gross salary isn't enough to get you anywhere for identity fraud; there's more useful information in the phone book and far more useful info on peoples' Facebook/etc. profiles.

Like I said earlier, I don't really see the purpose of these lists, but they're pretty innocuous in practice. Most people don't even know they exist and unscrupulous people aren't going to query a database to see who to scam when there are much easier ways to find a good target.

[Pizza]

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeBruce

Is $100k really that much anymore? I mean 10 years ago maybe, but today it seems like $100k is just slightly above average salary.

i know im late to the party, but seriously? just slightly above?

mind blown at all the whiners who think 100k is not much, even if its dual income