[PGT] Flames 2 @ Blues 3

[_Q_]

My observations:

Billins isn't an NHL defender
Berra isn't an NHL goalie
Reinhart needs a lot of work
Jackman isn't an NHL forward

[strombad]

Originally Posted by _Q_

My observations:

Billins isn't an NHL defender
Berra isn't an NHL goalie
Reinhart needs a lot of work
Jackman isn't an NHL forward

Sure looked like Berra was playing in the NHL to me.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by _Q_

My observations:

Billins isn't an NHL defender
Berra isn't an NHL goalie
Reinhart needs a lot of work
Jackman isn't an NHL forward

What's up with Billins in the lineup over Smith? I thought Smith was playing pretty well with SOB?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by _Q_

My observations:

Billins isn't an NHL defender
Berra isn't an NHL goalie
Reinhart needs a lot of work
Jackman isn't an NHL forward

It has only been a few games from each of them so far, but Berra has been the best of the 3 by a wide margin.

He has looked every bit the NHL goaltender to me. Always square to the puck, excellent lateral movement, and decent (best of the 3 at the very least) rebound control.

Give the guy some decent defensive coverage and I think you'll see a solid NHL goaltender.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What's up with Billins in the lineup over Smith? I thought Smith was playing pretty well with SOB?

there was some speculation - but nothing official - that he might be a bit banged up

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It has only been a few games from each of them so far, but Berra has been the best of the 3 by a wide margin.

He has looked every bit the NHL goaltender to me. Always square to the puck, excellent lateral movement, and decent (best of the 3 at the very least) rebound control.

Give the guy some decent defensive coverage and I think you'll see a solid NHL goaltender.

I don't get why so many complement Berras rebound control. I think it's his weakest part of his game. He is excellent on the first shot and impossible to score on down low, but has given up some juicy rebounds that have ended up in the back of the net. The majority of the goals so far have been because of big rebounds, he was good in the first game but since then has been fairly weak in my opinion on rebound control.

[_Q_]

Yeah I think Berra has looked horrible the last two games. Maybe he'll get better, but as of right now, he looks like he belongs more in the Swiss League than the NHL.

[Fire]

Billins is too small for the NHL. The Flames already have Russell. They can't afford to have another midget on the blue line.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Yeah I think Berra has looked horrible the last two games. Maybe he'll get better, but as of right now, he looks like he belongs more in the Swiss League than the NHL.

You must be confused and think that the definition of "NHL goalie" is Kipper.

Berra hasn't been outstanding, but he has been the same or better than pretty much every backup goalie in the league. At worst he's good enough to be an NHL backup, which is still an NHL goalie.

So, you're wrong.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by J epworth kendal

I don't get why so many complement Berras rebound control. I think it's his weakest part of his game. He is excellent on the first shot and impossible to score on down low, but has given up some juicy rebounds that have ended up in the back of the net. The majority of the goals so far have been because of big rebounds, he was good in the first game but since then has been fairly weak in my opinion on rebound control.

Yes, there have been some goals off rebounds, but there are two things to consider:

1) the guys scoring those rebound goals have typically been wide open, and

2) not every shot can be controlled with respect to the rebound. If the shot is a quality scoring chance from in close, the goalie can't do anything about the rebound. You're just looking to get hit on most good chances, and it is up to the D to cover the forwards and not let them get the rebounds

This discussion perfectly illustrates how good defense leads to good goaltending (and vice versa).

Berra hasn't been perfect, but when there are guys standing wide open in front of you, any and all goalies are going to struggle.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, there have been some goals off rebounds, but there are two things to consider:

1) the guys scoring those rebound goals have typically been wide open, and

2) not every shot can be controlled with respect to the rebound. If the shot is a quality scoring chance from in close, the goalie can't do anything about the rebound. You're just looking to get hit on most good chances, and it is up to the D to cover the forwards and not let them get the rebounds

This discussion perfectly illustrates how good defense leads to good goaltending (and vice versa).

Berra hasn't been perfect, but when there are guys standing wide open in front of you, any and all goalies are going to struggle.

Yeah, its pretty tough to control the rebound when you've been hung out to dry and you have to perform acrobatics just to make the first save.

The other 5 players (not to lay all the blame on the D) have to take on their significant portion of the blame for not clearing the guys out in front of the net and not clearing more rebounds too.

[Huntingwhale]

ROFL Berra with terrible rebound control. Did you guys even watch the rebound goals he's let in?

One vs the Wild was a sprawling toe save that got wacked in right after. Not much of a chance there.

Last nights was a shot up high near the neck that bounced down in front of 2 defenders, then got wacked in by a Blues' player. How is that his fault?

Some of you really need to compare tapes of Mac/Ramo vs Berra. The rebound control is night/day difference. I also think Berra's anticipation of cross-ice passes has been incredible so far. 3 times now I've seen him come out to challenge, only to fully anticipate the pass coming to the guy backdoor. He's made the 1st save sprawled out...then the rebound gets knocked in.

Berra's been the least of our problems, and I'd argue he's been our brightest spot lately.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

ROFL Berra with terrible rebound control. Did you even watch the rebound goals he's let in?

One vs the Wild was a sprawling toe save that got wacked in right after. Not much of a chance there.

Last nights was a shot up high near the neck that bounced down in front of 2 defenders, then got wacked in by a Blues' player. How is that his fault?

Some of you really need to compare tapes of Mac/Ramo vs Berra. The rebound control is night/day difference.

So Mac/Ramo are now the gold standard?

[puckluck2]

Hasek in his prime couldn't save this team. Our defence is terrible.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

That's really funny. Rene Corbet is at a lot of our work functions, and I've gotten the chance to talk to him on a couple of occasions. I remember when Hartley had just gotten hired last year, I asked him what he thought about Hartley, and he had nothing good to say about him. He said that Hartley was the reason he got traded from Colorado, and generally didn't seem to think much of him.

I wonder where the story started that Bob Hartley is a players coach. I didn't follow his ATL stint, but when he was with the Avs I thought his rep was a hardass (might have been after the Marc Crawford who was known more as a players coach).

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by _Q_

So Mac/Ramo are now the gold standard?

No, but its the only reference point we have for our goaltending this season. I'm just saying that I don't think Berra's rebound control has been the big issue its being made out to be

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

No, but its the only reference point we have for our goaltending this season. I'm just saying that I don't think Berra's rebound control has been the big issue its being made out to be

I guess, if that's the comparison, then sure, he's better. Ramo and Mac did flop around quite a lot and were always caught out of position, which Berra is better at. I'll give him that. But, he's far from being a decent NHL starter at this point.

[Ashasx]

I don't even think you can properly evaluate goaltending until the team in front takes shape.

[SuperMatt18]

Berra is fine in my opinion and has looked the part of NHL goalie to me.

It's been three games and he has adjusted to a much higher level of hockey quite well, give him time.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Winning IS the lesson, and should always be. It should not and cannot be something you decide to turn on at some arbitrary point

I think this team (now and moving forward) has to learn how to win. Understand what it takes, the dedication, the sacrifice to win at this level. It's very tough to win in the NHL and it is a hard lesson to learn. Do you need to learn that lesson on the ice? I don't necessarily think you do. Baertschi has a lot of skill but does he have the drive and determination to do what it takes to go the extra mile? I think that is what Hartley is trying to find out. Sadly, you also have to learn to hate losing, I mean hate it. Get to the point that you are willing to do whatever it takes to win. Look at Edmonton, it's obvious that they have yet to learn how to win but even worse is I think they have yet to learn to hate the loses. They are too complacent with it. Once that starts you are in a lot of trouble.

I have zero complaints about this season, none. It's a wash. The only way I am disappointed with this team/organization is if I still see Butler/Jackman/Smith/Stajan/Stempniak/O'brien on the team next year. Maybe not all of them but the majority of them. I think there is a good mix of talent and character in a lot of our young guys and I want to see what they can do at this level at the end of this year and next year.

I hate it when the Flames lose, drives me nuts and I will never except it but, I understand it.