[News] Johnson: Flames fans patiently wait for Gaudreau

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The Flames made a choice and they got Hudler signed long term and now have no room for another small player.

Define "long term". He has three years remaining and doesn't have a no-trade clause of any kind. He's a middle of the road top 6 player with a middle of the road contract. He could be easily moved when/if the time is ready.

[jg13]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Will the Flames be the best team for him to break in with?

Baertschi basically lost a year because he was in the Flames organization and there were small players already on the roster that were locked into NHL contracts Hudler, Cammalleri, Cervenka,Tanguay (I know he is average sized but plays really small) along with Brodie, Butler and Smith as small d-men.

This year the Flames have made room for Baertschi by getting rid of Tanguay and Cervenka. Next year .... when it is Gaudreau's time to sign there still will be Baertschi and Hudler.


There is no NHL team that has 3 guys in their top 6 that are 5-9/ 5-10 160-180

Cammalleri wants out... of course he does..... and gets it at the the end of this season at the latest. He understands that he has virtually no chance for personal or team success with him, Hudler and Baertschi in the top 6.

Even the tiny Oilers that are dramatically under performing due to lack of size/grit are not as small as the Flames tiny 3.

This time next year Gaudreau will have a choice to either to try out for Cammalleri's spot and likely getting the Baertschi treatment with 4th line time and AHL OR he can play for one more season at BU and pick the best team that gets him in the NHL.

The Flames made a choice and they got Hudler signed long term and now have no room for another small player.

By the time Gaudreau is in the lineup, we'll have Stajan 6'1, Monahan 6'2, Knight 6'2, Backlund 6'0 as our centermen with the lightest one weighing 192lb (Stajan). Throw any of them on a line with Glencross & JG and size isn't an issue.

Sure if we had a couple bigger wingers it'd be nice, but I dont think it becomes an issue with Gaudreau signing here.

[Coach]

Space will be made for Gaudreau, or whoever, when they're ready to play. It seems the organization is past the mode where salary=play time. If Hudler ends up riding the 3rd line wing, or sitting in the press box, or being traded, or being waived (man that seems like a lot of options other than just playing him because he's there).

Not to mention that just because someone is left handed, doesn't necessarily mean they have to play left wing. They may be even better on the off-wing.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Will the Flames be the best team for him to break in with?

Baertschi basically lost a year because he was in the Flames organization and there were small players already on the roster that were locked into NHL contracts Hudler, Cammalleri, Cervenka,Tanguay (I know he is average sized but plays really small) along with Brodie, Butler and Smith as small d-men.

This year the Flames have made room for Baertschi by getting rid of Tanguay and Cervenka. Next year .... when it is Gaudreau's time to sign there still will be Baertschi and Hudler.


There is no NHL team that has 3 guys in their top 6 that are 5-9/ 5-10 160-180

Cammalleri wants out... of course he does..... and gets it at the the end of this season at the latest. He understands that he has virtually no chance for personal or team success with him, Hudler and Baertschi in the top 6.

Even the tiny Oilers that are dramatically under performing due to lack of size/grit are not as small as the Flames tiny 3.

This time next year Gaudreau will have a choice to either to try out for Cammalleri's spot and likely getting the Baertschi treatment with 4th line time and AHL OR he can play for one more season at BU and pick the best team that gets him in the NHL.

The Flames made a choice and they got Hudler signed long term and now have no room for another small player.

Neither Baertschi nor Brule fit in that category - actually, neither does Hudler

Also, not one person suggested Brule was a top 6 candidate

[Stampede2TheCup]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Will the Flames be the best team for him to break in with?

Baertschi basically lost a year because he was in the Flames organization and there were small players already on the roster that were locked into NHL contracts Hudler, Cammalleri, Cervenka,Tanguay (I know he is average sized but plays really small) along with Brodie, Butler and Smith as small d-men.

This year the Flames have made room for Baertschi by getting rid of Tanguay and Cervenka. Next year .... when it is Gaudreau's time to sign there still will be Baertschi and Hudler.


There is no NHL team that has 3 guys in their top 6 that are 5-9/ 5-10 160-180

Cammalleri wants out... of course he does..... and gets it at the the end of this season at the latest. He understands that he has virtually no chance for personal or team success with him, Hudler and Baertschi in the top 6.

Even the tiny Oilers that are dramatically under performing due to lack of size/grit are not as small as the Flames tiny 3.

This time next year Gaudreau will have a choice to either to try out for Cammalleri's spot and likely getting the Baertschi treatment with 4th line time and AHL OR he can play for one more season at BU and pick the best team that gets him in the NHL.

The Flames made a choice and they got Hudler signed long term and now have no room for another small player.

Good thing Baertschi is already well over 180 and apparently working hard on the offseason to get even stronger. Phew, glad we dodged that bullet and can follow the strict rules regarding small players!

[Canada 02]

when Hudler was with the Red Wings, they had giants like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Samuelsson, Filppula, Draper, Rafalski, and Kronwall as part of the core of their team

[Stupid]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Will the Flames be the best team for him to break in with?

Baertschi basically lost a year because he was in the Flames organization and there were small players already on the roster that were locked into NHL contracts Hudler, Cammalleri, Cervenka,Tanguay (I know he is average sized but plays really small) along with Brodie, Butler and Smith as small d-men.

This year the Flames have made room for Baertschi by getting rid of Tanguay and Cervenka. Next year .... when it is Gaudreau's time to sign there still will be Baertschi and Hudler.


There is no NHL team that has 3 guys in their top 6 that are 5-9/ 5-10 160-180

Cammalleri wants out... of course he does..... and gets it at the the end of this season at the latest. He understands that he has virtually no chance for personal or team success with him, Hudler and Baertschi in the top 6.

Even the tiny Oilers that are dramatically under performing due to lack of size/grit are not as small as the Flames tiny 3.

This time next year Gaudreau will have a choice to either to try out for Cammalleri's spot and likely getting the Baertschi treatment with 4th line time and AHL OR he can play for one more season at BU and pick the best team that gets him in the NHL.

The Flames made a choice and they got Hudler signed long term and now have no room for another small player.

Oh please. You have no crystal ball. The team you join doesn't have to have the perfect spot for you starting on day 1 (which is over a year away even, lots could happen). Some people will actually happily take something less than what they can get - for the good of the team or another reason.

Not everyone is a selfish business-first kinda guy.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by jg13

By the time Gaudreau is in the lineup, we'll have Stajan 6'1, Monahan 6'2, Knight 6'2, Backlund 6'0 as our centermen with the lightest one weighing 192lb (Stajan). Throw any of them on a line with Glencross & JG and size isn't an issue.

Sure if we had a couple bigger wingers it'd be nice, but I dont think it becomes an issue with Gaudreau signing here.

Stajan is UFA after next season. I don't see us bringing him back.

Monahan, Knight, Backlund, Horak and Reinhart are our future at centre ice. Jankowski longer term.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Will the Flames be the best team for him to break in with?

Baertschi basically lost a year because he was in the Flames organization and there were small players already on the roster that were locked into NHL contracts Hudler, Cammalleri, Cervenka,Tanguay (I know he is average sized but plays really small) along with Brodie, Butler and Smith as small d-men.

This year the Flames have made room for Baertschi by getting rid of Tanguay and Cervenka. Next year .... when it is Gaudreau's time to sign there still will be Baertschi and Hudler.


There is no NHL team that has 3 guys in their top 6 that are 5-9/ 5-10 160-180

Cammalleri wants out... of course he does..... and gets it at the the end of this season at the latest. He understands that he has virtually no chance for personal or team success with him, Hudler and Baertschi in the top 6.

Even the tiny Oilers that are dramatically under performing due to lack of size/grit are not as small as the Flames tiny 3.

This time next year Gaudreau will have a choice to either to try out for Cammalleri's spot and likely getting the Baertschi treatment with 4th line time and AHL OR he can play for one more season at BU and pick the best team that gets him in the NHL.

The Flames made a choice and they got Hudler signed long term and now have no room for another small player.

I agree with you that you can have only so many small players in your lineup. You cannot be parking a couple of small players on one line and think they are going to be successful. After that, your post goes completely off the rails.

The Flames could exist with three small players in the lineup. It means they have to play on different lines, but it can be done, and with success, as long as the players are skilled and can play at a high level. This same expectation extends to larger players as well. You can't have a good team with nine guys who are 6'2 and 220 pounds if they can't skate or have no talent with the puck. You need talent, first and foremost, or you run into a problem regardless of the size of players.

On your Cammalleri point, the guy wants out because he wants to play on a winner. Size of his team mates has little to do with that. What he sees right now is a team filled with players short on talent, and those with talent, short on experience. Cammalleri wants to go to a team where he isn't playing wet nurse to a bunch of developing players. Their size is irrelevant in his desires.

On your Bartschi point, you have an active imagination. The Flames did not make a decision based on his size, but instead made a decision based on the desires of Jarome Iginla and wanting to make one more push for the post-season. Having Bartschi on the roster, in a position where he could have really contributed, would have raised too much risk for the team wanting to compete for the post-season with a compressed schedule. They went with a veteran lineup and crapped the bed. As soon as it appeared they were done, and Iginla was on his way out of town, Bartschi was brought back up and started to play a more central role where you would expect a player of his skills to be. His size was again irrelevant.

In the future Gaudreau's size will be just as irrelevant. If he has the skill to play, there will be a position open for him. The Flames will make the moves required to make room for him if he is as good as he has shown to date. Even if the Flames keep Gaudreau, Bartschi and Hudler on the roster, they will be just fine. Gaudreau and Bartschi will play on the first two lines and Hudler will patrol one of the wings on the third line, like he did so effectively for the Red Wings all those years. There is plenty of room for all of them on the roster. If the team decides otherwise, they will move Hudler in a trade. He's on a good contract and is very versatile. He'll be a good asset to move when the time comes. Relax and watch it all unfold. It's going to be a beautiful thing.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

when Hudler was with the Red Wings, they had giants like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Samuelsson, Filppula, Draper, Rafalski, and Kronwall as part of the core of their team

and not one of these guys is/was smaller than any of Hudler, Cammalleri, Baertschi or Gaudreau.


Do you think it is coincidence that 5-10 176 Brunner is still available as a UFA after turning down a short term offer from the Wings?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Do you think it is coincidence that 5-10 176 Brunner is still available as a UFA after turning down a short term offer from the Wings?

With that logic why hasn't Jagr or Mueller or Morrow or been snapped up while Danny Briere was signed before them? Size is all that matters, right?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by blah blah

Good thing Baertschi is already well over 180 and apparently working hard on the offseason to get even stronger. Phew, glad we dodged that bullet and can follow the strict rules regarding small players!

McGrattan went directly to Baertschi to assure them him that he would smash in anyone's face if they messed with him ??

MacGrattan understands completely that he was brought in to protect Baertschi in particular......... Ask yourself why, when Baertschi is well on his way to becoming physically dominate in this league.

The AVERAGE NHL player is 6-1+ and 203 .... The average NHL player will physically dominate Baertschi.

With Iginla and Bouwmeester gone the Flames have no regular players larger than the average NHL player.... Gio at 6-0 203 is the closest of the top-9 forwards and top-4 d-men to average.

Feaster has moved to try to fix this off season but it will take time to get a team that allows the small player to reach their potential.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by New Era

On your Bartschi point, you have an active imagination. The Flames did not make a decision based on his size, but instead made a decision based on the desires of Jarome Iginla and wanting to make one more push for the post-season. Having Bartschi on the roster, in a position where he could have really contributed, would have raised too much risk for the team wanting to compete for the post-season with a compressed schedule. They went with a veteran lineup and crapped the bed. As soon as it appeared they were done, and Iginla was on his way out of town, Bartschi was brought back up and started to play a more central role where you would expect a player of his skills to be. His size was again irrelevant.

That's the way you saw it. I saw that Baertschi was far more talented than
Cervenka, Hudler, and early season Cammalleri and was not played as he was so small and the only player that could provide him protection was Jackman (or Iginla). Stempniak was not interested in playing physical and standing up for anyone and Comeau was in his downward spiral.. Glencross would have to have Baertschi switch wings.


Hartman (or Conroy or someone) saw that if Baertschi were to be identified as a key Flame player chances are he would have been physically challenged on a regular basis and his development jeopardized.

When Iginla and Bouw were dealt Jackman moved up to the top 9. Rienhardt and Hankowski , Sarich, Cunardi were given more significant roles. McGrattan was played 10 minutes a game and Jackman more than 10 minutes/game.

The Flames iced the toughest line-up that was possible in the organization and Baertschi played well.

If Baertschi was run in the last 10 games the Flames had a team that would have reacted.

The Flames getting bigger and tougher cost them a top-3 draft choice.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

McGrattan went directly to Baertschi to assure them him that he would smash in anyone's face if they messed with him ??

MacGrattan understands completely that he was brought in to protect Baertschi in particular......... Ask yourself why, when Baertschi is well on his way to becoming physically dominate in this league.

The AVERAGE NHL player is 6-1+ and 203 .... The average NHL player will physically dominate Baertschi.

With Iginla and Bouwmeester gone the Flames have no regular players larger than the average NHL player.... Gio at 6-0 203 is the closest of the top-9 forwards and top-4 d-men to average.

Feaster has moved to try to fix this off season but it will take time to get a team that allows the small player to reach their potential.

I think you've forgotten Stajan, Glencross, Stempniak, and Wideman all sitting pretty much next to the average the same way Gio is in some shape or form.

Add the new additions of Jones, Galiardi and even O'Brien despite being a #6 guy, you can see the organization has been making moves to address your constant nitpicking of size and weight. The biggest (pun not intended) issue with this team is not the lack of size, but compete level. Lost Iginla and Bouwmeester? Not an issue with some of the younger guys like Reinhart getting some snaps in and you could tell the whole team was skating harder.

Nobody will argue that the moves made will be enough to roll with Anaheim, LA or Boston but they're certainly in the right direction in what will be a process. Upcoming pieces Knight and Monahan to look forward to long term will put this team in better shape.

Could use a Wheeler or a Lucic, but who doesn't want one or another one?

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

That's the way you saw it. I saw that Baertschi was far more talented than
Cervenka, Hudler, and early season Cammalleri and was not played as he was so small and the only player that could provide him protection was Jackman (or Iginla). Stempniak was not interested in playing physical and standing up for anyone and Comeau was in his downward spiral.. Glencross would have to have Baertschi switch wings.


Hartman (or Conroy or someone) saw that if Baertschi were to be identified as a key Flame player chances are he would have been physically challenged on a regular basis and his development jeopardized.

When Iginla and Bouw were dealt Jackman moved up to the top 9. Rienhardt and Hankowski , Sarich, Cunardi were given more significant roles. McGrattan was played 10 minutes a game and Jackman more than 10 minutes/game.

The Flames iced the toughest line-up that was possible in the organization and Baertschi played well.

If Baertschi was run in the last 10 games the Flames had a team that would have reacted.

The Flames getting bigger and tougher cost them a top-3 draft choice.

Actually, getting smaller and tougher cost them a top-3 draft choice. They certainly didn't get bigger after trading Iginla and Bouwmeester (6'1/210 and 6'4/215 respectively).

Toughness, skill, and will, not size is what matters. Iginla is bigger and heavier than Horak/Reinhardt, and Bouwmeester bigger than Brodie/Cundari.

Baertchi started in the top 9 and got some top 6 time in his first stint with the Flames and couldn't get things going. The second stint he played much better, but was about the same size/weight and was in the top 6 the entire time. He also didn't play much in his second stint with either Jackman or Mcgratton. Baertchi's play had absolutely nothing to do with size.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

There is no NHL team that has 3 guys in their top 6 that are 5-9/ 5-10 160-180

Well that's only because the Canadiens are even smaller.

Briere, 5'10'' 179, just squeaks in.
Desharnais, 5'7'' 177, the whipping boy after putting up 60 points a year ago.
Gallagher, 5'9'' 179, the 5th rounder coming off an impressive rookie season.
Gionta, 5'7'' 174, the veteran captain.

If it was up to Canadien fans chances are not all 4 players make it to the regular season but if they do they're forced to have at least 2 of them in the top 6 or have a third line with at least 2 of em.

I like size as well, and the fact that Canadien fans always want to add size and lose a small player is pretty good evidence that it's a nice quality to have.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Well that's only because the Canadiens are even smaller.

Briere, 5'10'' 179, just squeaks in.
Desharnais, 5'7'' 177, the whipping boy after putting up 60 points a year ago.
Gallagher, 5'9'' 179, the 5th rounder coming off an impressive rookie season.
Gionta, 5'7'' 174, the veteran captain.

If it was up to Canadien fans chances are not all 4 players make it to the regular season but if they do they're forced to have at least 2 of them in the top 6 or have a third line with at least 2 of em.

I like size as well, and the fact that Canadien fans always want to add size and lose a small player is pretty good evidence that it's a nice quality to have.

Briere hasn't played there yet. We have to wait to see how that turns out.

last year they went with the 3 small guys and that was amazing..

Gallagher also plays with reckless abandon so if one of the Flames wee-3 plays like him it would make room for another small guy.

Thanks for the research and input.....

Any other teams with 3 small guys in their top 9.

Buffalo has Gerbe and Ennis..... as their tiny 2 .... I think that was the reason that they moved Byron to the Flames.

[MissTeeks]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Briere hasn't played there yet. We have to wait to see how that turns out.

last year they went with the 3 small guys and that was amazing..

Gallagher also plays with reckless abandon so if one of the Flames wee-3 plays like him it would make room for another small guy.

Thanks for the research and input.....

Any other teams with 3 small guys in their top 9.

Buffalo has Gerbe and Ennis..... as their tiny 2 .... I think that was the reason that they moved Byron to the Flames.

Not anymore, they bought him out.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Briere hasn't played there yet. We have to wait to see how that turns out.

I'll take a stab in the dark and say they still end up an NHL team

But yes, I agree size is important but you can't just ignore that there's not many top 6 players that size. I'm sure if a team had 180 pound Kane on their team and 5'7'' St. Louis that wouldn't prevent them from offering a contract to 170 pound Giroux if he magically became a free agent and wanted to sign there for cheap.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Briere hasn't played there yet. We have to wait to see how that turns out.

last year they went with the 3 small guys and that was amazing..

Gallagher also plays with reckless abandon so if one of the Flames wee-3 plays like him it would make room for another small guy.

Thanks for the research and input.....

Any other teams with 3 small guys in their top 9.

Buffalo has Gerbe and Ennis..... as their tiny 2 .... I think that was the reason that they moved Byron to the Flames.

You're saying that we should wait and see what Montreal does with their small players but you're completely dismissing Calgary and what they could possibly do with theirs, even though the one guy is at least a year away and at least one position will open up and one of those small guys may bulk up past the point you identified in your criteria? Consistent much?