The Prospect Cupboard

[cowtown75]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Didn't really forget about him - just a quick run-through without naming all the prospects. For instance, I do believe Wotherspoon is very close to NHL ready based on his size, IQ and the type of game he plays.

I would put Knight right around the same ballpark as Nemisz - probably a bit higher. But that is just me.



Some of these prospects will not end up on the team. Some will bomb, some will be traded away, some will just never get to their ceilings and eventually they will be moved on. However, it is all about building the deepest prospect pool. When you think of it, Flames were a bit 'ahead' of the rebuild game as compared to some other teams.

Usually teams that decide to rebuild are teams that were trying to contend and artificially keep themselves in the 'game' for too long by trading away the future for the now.

Flames stopped trading away their future in the last few years, and have rebuilt their drafting and development department over the years. Flames seemed to be getting some hits in the later rounds in the NHL (Reinhart, Brodie), as well as hits in the later rounds that are SO FAR proving to be likely NHL players (but not guarantees - Gaudreau, Arnold, etc), which seems to me CLOSER to a team like Ottawa than Edmonton (not as high as Ottawa - they were left with Spezza, and they had Karlsson drafted already before they decided to tear it down I believe).

There is very good reason to be optimistic for the Flames' future, but a bit of caution is indeed needed. Rebuilds take 2 years minimum I think before you can expect to see improvement. Based on the depth of the prospect base so far, it is looking 'positive'. Not that you can put too much stock in something like the HF prospect pool rankings, but it does show trends and generalizations. Flames have been improving, and I expect them to climb to around 15th at the lowest when they re-rank. Flames were in the bottom 2 or 3 for a while, and the last ranking had them sitting at 20th (if memory serves). Should see an improvement after this draft (3 first rounders after-all), the Knight signing, Gaudreau looking better, Baertschi breaking into the NHL more, etc.

There will always be prospects that unfortunately fall to injuries or just a lack of development, but there are also always surprises as well. Main thing is to keep pushing for the future and concentrate on scouting well, drafting well, and developing prospects with patience. Calgary spends loads of money in this area now as compared to the 90's-early 2000's, so you can realistically (rather than hoping over-optimistically) that they SHOULD see a big improvement.

Flames are still going to be a bottom of the standings team for at the very least this upcoming season. They should be adding another blue-chipper. They will also have a few more vets to trade between now and the next draft as well, which will only add to the pool (or at least, return younger vets to help the team improve longer-term).

Just the way I see it anyways.

Good post.

[RT14]

Originally Posted by BlackWallStreet

Was just wondering why jankowski is considered one of our top prospects when he didn't do very well statistically this most recent year. Can someone give me some insight on this player? Thx

Just look at the team he's on to get a good feel of how he's doing. He's tied for 4th in points and is 3.5 years younger than anyone above him. That right there tells you how rare it would be for a 17 year old to light it up in that league.

Checked every team above them in standings and Jankowski was youngest out of all those teams top 5 scorers. Our own Gaudreau led Boston College as a 19 year old.

From everything I can see just from looking at stats from around his league, and given his age, I see no reason to think he's taken any steps back and in fact, looks better to me now than he did last year at this time.

[cowtown75]

Originally Posted by RT14

Just look at the team he's on to get a good feel of how he's doing. He's tied for 4th in points and is 3.5 years younger than anyone above him. That right there tells you how rare it would be for a 17 year old to light it up in that league.

Checked every team above them in standings and Jankowski was youngest out of all those teams top 5 scorers. Our own Gaudreau led Boston College as a 19 year old.

From everything I can see just from looking at stats from around his league, and given his age, I see no reason to think he's taken any steps back and in fact, looks better to me now than he did last year at this time.

He did really good IMO opinion in his first year of College playing against more qualified, bigger talent. Agreed all the way. If Calgary4Life is right, I hope he does get that center position again next year.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by BlackWallStreet

Was just wondering why jankowski is considered one of our top prospects when he didn't do very well statistically this most recent year. Can someone give me some insight on this player? Thx

He's a big kid with top level skills. If he continues to develop he could be a great player. Statistics don't mean a heckuva lot when you look at prospects. Growth and improvement in their areas of weakness are what make a prospect good or bad. You only need to look at Robbie Schremp to understand points don't mean much. For Jankowski this past season was a great success. He transitioned from prep hockey to college hockey, which is a huge jump. He went to a school not expected to be overly competitive and was a top four scorer. Most importantly, after a mediocre first half he really stepped up his game and had a great second half of the season. That is showing growth and continuing to achieve success. When you consider expectations on the player I would say Jankowski exceeded reasonable expectations.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

While this is extremely hard to evaluate, I will rank based on potential to make an impact in the NHL:

1) Monahan
2) Baertschi
3) Jankowski
4) Reinhart
5) Gaudreau
6) Wotherspoon
7) Gillies
8) Sieloff
9) Knight
10) Ramage
11) Klimchuk
12) Brossoit
13) Arnold
14) Ferland
15) Poirier
16) Agostino
17) Granlund
18) Breen
19) Hanowski
20) Ortio

Honourable mention to Eric Roy and Ryan Culkin.

I think everyone in our system after this list is a long shot to be a regular in the NHL.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I should mention as well that I feel 10 through 20 on my list are all very close in NHL abilities...very interchangeable.

[Enoch Root]

On Jankowski: last year was definitely a 'developmental' year and he gets a free pass for that, IMO.

I think this year a lot of people will be watching much more closely. Kids get drafted at 18 and everyone tries to assess their 'ceiling' but in reality it is a progression.

This year will tell a lot whether he is progressing towards being an NHLer or not. For me, I would like to see something north of .75 PPG (about .5 last year). If he shows strong growth in production, I will remain very high on him as a prospect. But if we don't see that progression, then his rank among Calgary's prospects will start to fall in many peoples' eyes.

[Incogneto]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

While this is extremely hard to evaluate, I will rank based on potential to make an impact in the NHL:

1) Monahan
2) Baertschi
3) Jankowski
4) Reinhart
5) Gaudreau
6) Wotherspoon
7) Gillies
8) Sieloff
9) Knight
10) Ramage
11) Klimchuk
12) Brossoit
13) Arnold
14) Ferland
15) Poirier
16) Agostino
17) Granlund
18) Breen
19) Hanowski
20) Ortio

Honourable mention to Eric Roy and Ryan Culkin.

I think everyone in our system after this list is a long shot to be a regular in the NHL.

No Cundari?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Fire

My list for the hell of it:

1. Sean Monahan
2. Sven Baertschi
3. John Gaudreau
4. Jon Gillies
5. Emile Poirier
6. Mark Jankowski
7. Tyler Wotherspoon
8. Morgan Klimchuk
9. Corban Knight
10. Mark Cundari
11. Max Reinhart
12. Laurent Brossoit
13. Pat Sieloff
14. Joni Ortio
15. Ken Agostino
16. John Ramage
17. Markus Granlund
18. Ben Hanowski
19. Michael Ferland
20. Brett Kulak


BTW when is the prospect camp?

The actual rankings could be debated ad nauseum but this list illustrates the real point, IMO, being that there are pretty decent prospects all the way down into the mid-teens now. Even just a couple of years ago, after 3-5 guys, the list got really skinny really fast.

Another year of trading at the deadline and drafting high and our prospect pool is going to be very exciting.

Edit: by the way, I like your list. I would pretty much have the same 5 guys in the top 5, and in the next 5 and so on.

[Erick Estrada]

Has the Flames prospect pool improved after the 2013 draft? Absolutely but pretty well the rest of the leage improved their talent bases as well so it's all relative. Heck even the Canucks moribund prospect cupboard looks better today. We have to hope some of the older prospects start making the next step this coming season or next.

[Enoch Root]

I think I would have my top 10 as:

Baertschi
Monahan
Gaudreau
Jankowski
Wotherspoon
Gillies
Reinhart
Knight
Poirier (if he makes the WJ team)
Cundari

with honourable mention to Breen, Brossoit, Sieloff and Klimchuk (any of which could be in the top 10).

I consider two factors: potential, and NHL-readiness.

To round out my top 20, I would probably include (in no particular order):

Ramage, Kulak, Agostino, Granlund, Arnold, and Ortio

Again, you look at a guy like Ramage - he could conceivably make the team in a year or two and yet I think most people would rank him in the 10-20 range. Just shows how much things have improved.

[Francis's Hairpiece]

Oh man do I wish Bartschi and Monahan have chemistry right off the bat.

[Flash Walken]

Yeah, names on a list don't mean much at all.

Is Pat Sieloff a better prospect than Keith Aulie or Ryan Wilson for example? Hard to say.

Dan Ryder was a pretty good prospect too, until he wasn't.

Things are theoretically heading in the right direction, but, I don't think we should be getting too excited until a couple of these guys actually solidify themselves as NHLers.

It is really nice to finally have a top prospect in the organization.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I see the Flames top 10 prospects in terms of long term and short term.

Short term, or who will make the club and have the biggest impact in the next two years.

1. Bartschi
2. Monahan
3. Knight
4. Reinhart
5. Cundari
6. Ramage
7. Berra
8. Bouma
9. Breen
10. Wotherspoon

Long term, or who will have the biggest impact in the next five years.

1. Gillies
2. Gaudreau
3. Jankowski
4. Monahan
5. Bartschi
6. Poirier
7. Wotherspoon
8. Reinhart
9. Sieloff
10 Broissoit

I see Monahan and Bartschi establishing a foundation, but I think some of the guys selected in the past couple of drafts on longer development paths have potential to have an even greater impact on the team and surpass the contributions of what many consider our top prospects right now.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by InCoGnEtO

No Cundari?

Honestly, no. I don't see the upside that everyone else does. He reminds me of Steve Montador a little, and although he could still develop into something better, I'm not convinced he will ever be a full time NHLer. Just my opinion though.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Honestly, no. I don't see the upside that everyone else does. He reminds me of Steve Montador a little, and although he could still develop into something better, I'm not convinced he will ever be a full time NHLer. Just my opinion though.

Steve Montador, really?

If you don't see the updside, that's fine, he's by no means a lock.. but that's just a bad comparision. Montador was the guy who, when on a breakaway, did what most 5 year olds in street hockey do... he kept his stick at his side, puck right in the middle of the blade and skated like that the entire way towards the net.

Cundari has a good two-way game from what I've seen. A lazy comparison on my part would probably be Andrew Ference.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Steve Montador, really?

If you don't see the updside, that's fine, he's by no means a lock.. but that's just a bad comparision. Montador was the guy who, when on a breakaway, did what most 5 year olds in street hockey do... he kept his stick at his side, puck right in the middle of the blade and skated like that the entire way towards the net.

Cundari has a good two-way game from what I've seen. A lazy comparison on my part would probably be Andrew Ference.

Montador has had a decent NHL career. Most of the Flames defence prospects in these lists won't play 200 NHL games, let alone 500. That's just reality. If Cundari bounces around the league as a 6th defenceman for 10 years, he'll have beaten the odds.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

I totally disagree... Monahan is a better prospect than Sven... are you telling me a team wouldn't trade Sven for Monahan right now?

... or, if easier to imagine, is Sven a better prospect than Elias Lindholm?

oh damn... this isn't going as I intended

That is the problem with prospect lists. They lack context. Without agreeing on scoring criteria they really don't mean anything.

If you are using trade value as the primary criteria then I agree that Monahan is the top prospect. Right now Monahan's status as a top 10 pick gives him value. Two years from now nobody will care where he is picked but how he is performing.

In my opinion Baertschi has a better chance of being a top player, he is ready to make an impact immediately, and he is almost a sure bet of being a top 6 forward in the NHL.

Monahan hasn't played a game of pro yet and still needs to prove he is an NHLer. He is also projected by most scouting agencies to be a really good 2-line C. (Cam Barker was worth a bunch the week after his draft as well).

If you compare Baertschi to Monahan in their draft years Monahan wins hands down. But when you compare them today I think Baertschi has the higher ceiling and the better chance of achieving it.

Hopefully Monahan has a +1 year like Baertschi did and takes over the spot.

[Tinordi]

Brodie's a prospect?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Brodie's a prospect?

Yeah, that's a head-scratcher. Are Doughty, Pietrangelo and Karlsson still prospects too?