Confirmed: the US government has a massive program to track all phone calls

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Itse

Let's turn this up a notch. Oh and hi Uncle Sam, how's it going?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...iants-nsa-data



Starting to sound like some whistleblower somewhere is busy leaking stuff to the Guardian.

So if all those companies store and have access to all about you to sell you ####, profile you, hire you or not hire you, give you a loan, change the price you pay... that's ok, but if the government wants to use it to maybe stop your loved ones from dying, that's not ok?

I really don't get all the fuss.

Edit: should clarify. I get the fuss from those that want all their info private, from everyone. What seems weird is that of all the groups who know everything about us, security folks are the ones people seem most upset about.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Muta

While it sucks to know the government does that, the joke is on them if they have to listen to one of my phone calls to my friends. That's 10 minutes of garbage they'll never get back.

That is your own tax dollars at work though. You are paying these people to listen to that crap.

I'd be surprised if the government hasn't already started "talks" with Microsoft to get access to the camera and mic in their new console. A camera and mic in millions of homes/living rooms? That's gotta be a wet dream for these guys.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

So if all those companies store and have access to all about you to sell you ####, profile you, hire you or not hire you, give you a loan, change the price you pay... that's ok, but if the government wants to use it to maybe stop your loved ones from dying, that's not ok?

I really don't get all the fuss.

Edit: should clarify. I get the fuss from those that want all their info private, from everyone. What seems weird is that of all the groups who know everything about us, security folks are the ones people seem most upset about.

Of course companies hold on to all our private info. That is the nature of the world we live in.

The government having access to that information should be governed by the judicial branch though, and that is obviously not happening.

This is a very serious problem. The guy releasing the information, obviously at the risk of being charged with treason sees it as such too. Sad that you don't.

[Delthefunky]

doo doo doo...

http://nsa.gov1.info/utah-data-center/

[Montana Moe]

^From the above link:

The steady rise in available computer power and the development of novel computer platforms will enable us to easily turn the huge volume of incoming data into an asset to be exploited, for the good of the nation.

See? No big deal.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by PIMking

I have nothing to hide, nor have I done anything wrong. What I have an issue is that the government uses that theory to do this illegally, what is the next thing they're going to do illegally but justifies it by saying "if you have nothing to hide or did nothing wrong" excuse to infringe on more of our rights.

What's illegal about it? And no, that's not the justification behind it at all.

I don't necessarily agree with the program, but it's absolutely hilarious to see people treating this as some major infringement when they already hand over much more vital information to the government on a daily basis, as well as handing over this same information to private companies on a daily basis.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

So if all those companies store and have access to all about you to sell you ####, profile you, hire you or not hire you, give you a loan, change the price you pay... that's ok, but if the government wants to use it to maybe stop your loved ones from dying, that's not ok?

I really don't get all the fuss.

Edit: should clarify. I get the fuss from those that want all their info private, from everyone. What seems weird is that of all the groups who know everything about us, security folks are the ones people seem most upset about.

Yep, it's okay if facebook has it but not the government. I fail to see how facebook is some trusted friend.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Azure

Of course companies hold on to all our private info. That is the nature of the world we live in.

The government having access to that information should be governed by the judicial branch though, and that is obviously not happening.

This is a very serious problem. The guy releasing the information, obviously at the risk of being charged with treason sees it as such too. Sad that you don't.

And why exactly is it a shoulder shrug when companies have it but an absolute outrage when the government does? You need to break down the difference there.

[Rathji]

Having private info does not necessarily equate to having information about my daily activities, ie who I call.

That said, I really don't see what the big deal is here. The Patriot Act passed over a decade ago. This is an extremely obvious, non-intrusive example of what the Patriot Act is intended to do.

No one should be surprised.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

So if all those companies store and have access to all about you to sell you ####, profile you, hire you or not hire you, give you a loan, change the price you pay... that's ok, but if the government wants to use it to maybe stop your loved ones from dying, that's not ok?

I really don't get all the fuss.

Edit: should clarify. I get the fuss from those that want all their info private, from everyone. What seems weird is that of all the groups who know everything about us, security folks are the ones people seem most upset about.

It's not weird at all.

Google might show you annoying ads.

The government might kill you, imprison you without charges or ruin your life in numerous other ways. Or just put you on a No Fly list, which is also something that can ruin a persons career if he really needs to travel a lot. Or just cost you a lot of money for no good reason and be really embarrassing and annoying.

[Erick Estrada]

I would actually be sympathetic to anyone that would have to listen to phone conversations between my wife and I.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would actually be sympathetic to anyone that would have to listen to phone conversations between my wife and I.

They're not listening to calls, they're tracking phone recrods.

[Itse]

This somwhat related article / opinion piece about whistleblowing in general had a pretty good quote:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/07/whistleblowers-and-leak-investigations

The way things are supposed to work is that we're supposed to know virtually everything about what they do: that's why they're called public servants. They're supposed to know virtually nothing about what we do: that's why we're called private individuals.


This dynamic - the hallmark of a healthy and free society - has been radically reversed. Now, they know everything about what we do, and are constantly building systems to know more. Meanwhile, we know less and less about what they do, as they build walls of secrecy behind which they function. That's the imbalance that needs to come to an end. No democracy can be healthy and functional if the most consequential acts of those who wield political power are completely unknown to those to whom they are supposed to be accountable.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by flameswin

They're not listening to calls, they're tracking phone recrods.

Really? Is that all? That's nothing really new.

[calumniate]

Does this have anything to do with the xbox one? Lol

[SebC]

Originally Posted by calumniate

Does this have anything to do with the xbox one? Lol

LOL. If Microsoft collects the data, the government can legislate that Microsoft turns over the data.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by valo403

No I didn't, I asked for an example of this policy being abused. Unless the argument is that people are being swept out of the US and into GB on the basis of this data it is not relevant.

I'm not so sure how easy it would be to demonstrate how a secretive policy carried out in a clandestine manner by an unaccountable branch of Government has been abused.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Itse

This somwhat related article / opinion piece about whistleblowing in general had a pretty good quot




The way things are supposed to work is that we're supposed to know virtually everything about what they do: that's why they're called public servants. They're supposed to know virtually nothing about what we do: that's why we're called private individuals.



This dynamic - the hallmark of a healthy and free society - has been radically reversed. Now, they know everything about what we do, and are constantly building systems to know more. Meanwhile, we know less and less about what they do, as they build walls of secrecy behind which they function. That's the imbalance that needs to come to an end. No democracy can be healthy and functional if the most consequential acts of those who wield political power are completely unknown to those to whom they are supposed to be accountable.




http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/07/whistleblowers-and-leak-investigations

Herbert Hoover's activities would bring dispute to the recollection of the author.

Ultimately, these secretive agencies do report to elected representatives. It's really about whether voters think their elected representatives are giving these agencies too much rope.

I would be interested to know if companies like Verizon are losing customers due to these revelations. That would be revealing as a canary in a,coal mine whether or not Americans care or not.

Cowperson

[Azure]

Either way you look at it, all of this was carried out without the checks and balances that were built into the system for a reason.

An overriding executive order that bypasses the judicial branch will ultimately result in gross abuse of someones right to privacy and perhaps their civil rights as well.

The government is operating without someone to keep them in line. The Patriot Act has been around how long now? Nobody seems to care. The drone attacks? Big deal. The outrage lasts about a week. Americans really are more concerned about the latest celebrity scandal than they are over what their government is doing.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Azure

Either way you look at it, all of this was carried out without the checks and balances that were built into the system for a reason.

An overriding executive order that bypasses the judicial branch will ultimately result in gross abuse of someones right to privacy and perhaps their civil rights as well.

The government is operating without someone to keep them in line. The Patriot Act has been around how long now? Nobody seems to care. The drone attacks? Big deal. The outrage lasts about a week. Americans really are more concerned about the latest celebrity scandal than they are over what their government is doing.

Unless I am mistaken, this was done by court order. Which part of the system was bypassed in your opinion?