ESF (1) Pittsburgh Penguins vs (7) Ottawa Senators (Penguins win 4-1). - Page 5 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

ClubFlames · 05-12-2013, 10:12 AM

This is for everyone who thinks picks from 25-30 are irrelevant.

2000 Draft:
#25 - Steve Ott
#28 - Justin Williams
#29 - Niklas Kronwall

2001 Draft:
No one significant but
#30 - Dave Steckel

2002 Draft:
#25 - Cam Ward

2003 Draft:
#26 - Brian Boyle
#28 - Corey Perry

2004 Draft:
#26 - Cory Schneider
#27 - Jeff Schultz
#28 - Mark Fistric
#29 - Mike Green

2005 Draft:
#25 - Andrew Cogliano
#28 - Matt Niskanen
#29 - Steve Downie

2006 Draft:
#25 - Patrik Berglund
#28 - Nick Foligno

2007 Draft:
#26 - David Perron
#27 - Brendan Smith

2008 Draft:
#26 - Tyler Ennis
#27 - John Carlson

2009 Draft:
#25 - Jordan Caron
#26 - Kyle Palmieri
#28 - Dylan Olsen
#30 - Simon Despres

2010 Draft:
#26 - Evgeny Kuznetsov
#28 - Charlie Coyle
#29 - Emerson Etem

2011 and 2012 drafts I will leave out since hardly any of them have made the pros yet.

As you can see with the late picks there's always a possibility that a good player can fall into our lap. There's a Hart Trophy winner in Corey Perry (deep draft I know) but also some very good players like Williams, Kronwall, Ward, Schneider, Green and so on.

Having a 25-30 pick doesn't make the pick irrelevant, we could still end up with a good player. Some posters here have been saying who cares about the Pittsburgh pick since the Flames will screw it up anways, thanks for having faith in the team you cheer for.

Ashasx · 05-12-2013, 10:20 AM

Pens in 4.

cubistcastle · 05-12-2013, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClubFlames

This is for everyone who thinks picks from 25-30 are irrelevant.

2000 Draft:
#25 - Steve Ott
#28 - Justin Williams
#29 - Niklas Kronwall

2001 Draft:
No one significant but
#30 - Dave Steckel

2002 Draft:
#25 - Cam Ward

2003 Draft:
#26 - Brian Boyle
#28 - Corey Perry

2004 Draft:
#26 - Cory Schneider
#27 - Jeff Schultz
#28 - Mark Fistric
#29 - Mike Green

2005 Draft:
#25 - Andrew Cogliano
#28 - Matt Niskanen
#29 - Steve Downie

2006 Draft:
#25 - Patrik Berglund
#28 - Nick Foligno

2007 Draft:
#26 - David Perron
#27 - Brendan Smith

2008 Draft:
#26 - Tyler Ennis
#27 - John Carlson

2009 Draft:
#25 - Jordan Caron
#26 - Kyle Palmieri
#28 - Dylan Olsen
#30 - Simon Despres

2010 Draft:
#26 - Evgeny Kuznetsov
#28 - Charlie Coyle
#29 - Emerson Etem

2011 and 2012 drafts I will leave out since hardly any of them have made the pros yet.

As you can see with the late picks there's always a possibility that a good player can fall into our lap. There's a Hart Trophy winner in Corey Perry (deep draft I know) but also some very good players like Williams, Kronwall, Ward, Schneider, Green and so on.

Having a 25-30 pick doesn't make the pick irrelevant, we could still end up with a good player. Some posters here have been saying who cares about the Pittsburgh pick since the Flames will screw it up anways, thanks for having faith in the team you cheer for.

This doesn't prove anything. I'm not saying that getting a good player between 25 and 30 is impossible. Look at the variety of positions these guys were taken at. If they were all taken 26th overall, you might have a point, but instead it just looks like all of the picks in this range have about the same chance to turn out well.

Why should fans have blind faith in a management group that has failed us before? Maybe you should be looking at the team more critically.

ClubFlames · 05-12-2013, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cubistcastle

This doesn't prove anything. I'm not saying that getting a good player between 25 and 30 is impossible. Look at the variety of positions these guys were taken at. If they were all taken 26th overall, you might have a point, but instead it just looks like all of the picks in this range have about the same chance to turn out well.

Why should fans have blind faith in a management group that has failed us before? Maybe you should be looking at the team more critically.

The point isn't what particular position they were picked at, the point was that anywhere from 25-30 we could end up with a good player rather than some posters completely writing the pick off just because its late in the first round. We don't even know where the Pittsburgh pick will be at this point.

As for faith in management, thats for another thread but I'm in the group of giving Feaster and Weisbrod a chance since they have only been here for 2 drafts.

blender · 05-12-2013, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cubistcastle

This doesn't prove anything. I'm not saying that getting a good player between 25 and 30 is impossible. Look at the variety of positions these guys were taken at. If they were all taken 26th overall, you might have a point, but instead it just looks like all of the picks in this range have about the same chance to turn out well.

Why should fans have blind faith in a management group that has failed us before? Maybe you should be looking at the team more critically.

It proves that good players are picked at the end of the first round.
What the Flames end up doing with their picks remains to be seen, and as a matter of percentages, the odds of drafting a superstar are long, BUT the OP is simply saying that the Pitt pick is a valuable pick.

I find it funny that for years on this board posters were moaning about how the Flames management didn't value second round picks, trading them away at the drop of a hat, but now the mood seems to be any pick not in the top 5 is just hot garbage.

cubistcastle · 05-12-2013, 10:58 AM

Again, the argument being made isn't that the pick won't be valuable. It's that there is no way of knowing whether moving up a few spots will even get us a marginally better player because its a crapshoot outside of the top 10 or so. Nobody is denying that good players are sometimes picked late in the first round, so yeah that really doesn't prove anything that everyone doesn't already know.

Oling_Roachinen · 05-12-2013, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cubistcastle

This doesn't prove anything. I'm not saying that getting a good player between 25 and 30 is impossible. Look at the variety of positions these guys were taken at. If they were all taken 26th overall, you might have a point, but instead it just looks like all of the picks in this range have about the same chance to turn out well.

It's still heavily up to management and the scouts. Of course if they have the 27th pick in the 2003 and think that Jeff Tambellini is the pick to go with instead of Corey Perry it doesn't matter. However, if they had the 30th pick in 2003 and had their eyes on Perry, tough luck since he's not available. The point is impact players can be taken with those last picks.

Now if they truly have high hopes for some kid that is available with that 25th/26th spot and they have the 30th they can still move up. If past drafts are an indication it would probably cost the Flames their third round pick. Or conversely if they had the 26th pick but no one popped out at them they could likely move down to that 30th spot or so for an early third.

So I guess that's what I would consider the "value" of Iginla winning the Cup, a third rounder...

cubistcastle · 05-12-2013, 11:02 AM

Total hypothetical, but look at the 03 draft. What if the Flames were in a similar position then? Some of you would be cheering against Iginla for a better pick so we could draft Boyle over Perry. and that's not even an extreme example - there are plenty of players that never make an impact drafted one or two spots ahead of guys who turn out to be top tier in this range. It's just impossible to tell right now.

Oling_Roachinen · 05-12-2013, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cubistcastle

Total hypothetical, but look at the 03 draft. What if the Flames were in a similar position then? Some of you would be cheering against Iginla for a better pick so we could draft Boyle over Perry. and that's not even an extreme example - there are plenty of players that never make an impact drafted one or two spots ahead of guys who turn out to be top tier in this range. It's just impossible to tell right now.

Except team scouting differs, just because they magically have the 26th in one year doesn't mean they would pick the 26th player that was taken. That's absurd. What it does give them options to pick anyone from 26th-29th that the 30th pick wouldn't have. Still heavily up to how much you trust the scouting for the Flames.

cubistcastle · 05-12-2013, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Except team scouting differs, just because they magically have the 26th in one year doesn't mean they would pick the 26th player that was taken. That's absurd. What it does give them options to pick anyone from 26th-29th that the 30th pick wouldn't have. Still heavily up to how much you trust the scouting for the Flames.

Right, I understand that. My point is that a higher pick could end up being detrimental at that point of the draft and IMO it is just as likely that it will hurt us vs help us and even more likely that it won't have a major impact on the direction of the franchise.

I don't want to derail this thread. It should be an awesome series to watch regardless.

kyuss275 · 05-12-2013, 11:12 AM

Maybe its me for being older and have seen former flames that i loved raise the cup for other teams. The joy for them lasts about a grand total of 2-3 minutes. The only person that hoisted a cup that still brings a smile to my face was D Sutter and he was not even a player.

Also i strongly believe that Pitt will have just as good, if not better chance, to raise the cup next year. Some of you are acting like this is it for Iggy.

If Pitt makes the final then i will probably change my tune and want Iggy to raise the cup this year. The difference of 29th and 30th wont be a big deal. I do think that the difference between 26th and 30th is a big deal and because of that i will route for the Senators. Iggy can have his cup next year.

I strongly believe no one player means more than the flaming C in front of the jersey. Right now its all what is best for the flames and thats having the best draft pick possible.

cubistcastle · 05-12-2013, 11:16 AM

It would be interesting to see the average age of the groups cheering for and against the Pens. Maybe younger fans who have strongly associated the Flames with Iginla since they have been fans would tend to support the Pens.

gargamel · 05-12-2013, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cubistcastle

It would be interesting to see the average age of the groups cheering for and against the Pens. Maybe younger fans who have strongly associated the Flames with Iginla since they have been fans would tend to support the Pens.

I'd be curious about the age breakdown as well, but I certainly never got the feeling that it was mostly younger Bruins fans who were rooting for Ray Bourque to win the Cup. I rip on that fan base often, but I always thought it was classy how most of Boston rallied behind him after he went to Colorado.

kyuss275 · 05-12-2013, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gargamel

I'd be curious about the age breakdown as well, but I certainly never got the feeling that it was mostly younger Bruins fans who were rooting for Ray Bourque to win the Cup. I rip on that fan base often, but I always thought it was classy how most of Boston rallied behind him after he went to Colorado.

For me that's a bit different situation. Bruins fans knew that Bourque was damm close to retiring. I would probably have a different mind set if Iggy was retiring very soon.

Oling_Roachinen · 05-12-2013, 12:02 PM

Drafting order was different with the Ray Bourque trade as well. St. Louis got 30th for winning the President's Trophy, Detroit was 29th for having the second most points. Playoffs didn't matter for the Bruins.

Sylvanfan · 05-12-2013, 12:32 PM

Go Senators. I want a Rangers vs Senators ECF because it moves up two Flames draft picks. Not that I don't like seeing former Flames do well, but the higher those picks are, the better it is for the Flames, regardless if they screw it up or not.

TurnedTheCorner · 05-12-2013, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I strongly believe no one player means more than the flaming C in front of the jersey.

Except for the magical player we could pick 26th who won't be there if we pick 30th. He's the most important player, scratch that -- most important person in the history of ever.

P-DAZZLE · 05-12-2013, 12:43 PM

I'm an optimist. I can't help but be happy that either way something good happens. If Iggy wins a cup I'll be incredibly happy for him, even though I'm a Flames fan first, I have been a huge fan of his pretty much my entire life.
If the Pens lose then there is the less-immediately gratifying consolation of the Flames pick being slightly higher.
Really the worst case scenario is picking 29th, because it means that we have the lowest pick possible without Iggy winning. Even then I'll be hoping we can pick up a Niklas Kronwall or Mike Green for our team.

Canuck-Hater · 05-12-2013, 12:51 PM

Honestly I think the Pens have already passed one of their toughest tests, and that was the Islanders. Should be a good series but I just don't like Ottawa and I like to see Iginla do well in the playoffs, no brainer for me Go Pens.

GoIggy · 05-12-2013, 12:55 PM

I may be biased in saying I'm not worried about the Sens, but for comparison purposes... I thought pre-Islanders series that it would be much closer of a series than I do pre-Senators series.

The Islanders were a tough matchup... a lot of speedy banger guys who were coming together and starting to tear apart the East... the Pens definitely struggled with all their speed. I think the Islanders were a really good team / had this season gone 82 games they wouldn't have been an 8 seed.

The Sens are slow, didn't play well down the stretch, limited scoring and no one upfront to rely upon for scoring... a washed up Gonchar was their 2nd leading scoring.

The Sens D is big, but I gurantee you habs won't bring the forecheck that Crosby, Dupuis, Kunitz, Cooke, etc will bring. I just don't see their D being mobile enough.

X-factor is always the goalie, but Anderson (while good) isn't Roy and Vokoun (while not Roy himself) is solid.

I've been wrong before, but I think this will be an easier series than the 1st one