Jason Collins becomes the first openly gay player in major American pro sports

[Daradon]

I think this is also much bigger in the States than in Canada because they are still about 10 years behind us on this issue.

Course most of our media comes from there and a lot of the culture is dictated by them, so it's big news. Not saying it shouldn't be, but I look forward to the day when it isn't, and I think in Canada, we are pretty close to there, so we don't see it as big a thing.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by gargamel

I'm with you, and that's my point. Straight men can't understand how straight women can be attracted to men, but we don't question it because it's "natural." By questioning how a man can be attracted to other men, Mike Wallace was (probably unintentionally) implying that homosexuality is somehow less natural.

Not less natural, but the reasons for its existence are certainly more complex. It's obvious that if men aren't attracted to women, the species doesn't exist. It's far less obvious why there are gay people. But that's also a million miles away from saying they shouldn't have equality.

If he doesn't understand how men can like men in the same sense that I don't understand how anyone can like fizzy drinks, then there's nothing morally reprehensible in what he said. I mean, obviously some people enjoy fizzy drinks in the same way that I like flat drinks, but I can't really get a sense of why people enjoy them because to me there's nothing attractive there.

It's okay to not understand something. You're not a bigot unless you're condemning/condoning. IMO.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by octothorp

The best I can do, like you, is a guess, but I'd expect the number of gay athletes in any sport is within a percentage point or two of what it is in the general population, because I just don't see any convincing reason for it to be different.

You make good points, and really yeah, it's all just guessing so I could be way off. However I think it's not an unreasonable guess, so the chance remains that a big reason for gay athletes not coming out is that there's just very very few of them.

Plus, even if we assume that there's just a small drop in comparison to general population, it could still only leave maybe twenty guys among a thousand. Unless you have one heck of a gaydar, you might not know of anyone else among your peers.

Tough situation to come out.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

Oh god, the Muppets are next

[killer_carlson]

It says he penned the article, which was very well written.

I think the issue of openly gay players in major sports will make leaps and bounds gains with a well spoken, (good) college educated player taking the questions. I think Collins would do very well in an interview, which can only help.

[onetwo_threefour]

Blows my mind that it became acceptable to be gay in the military before proceeding team sports. When I was younger I assumed that the military would be the last bastion of homophobia. Now it looks like it's going to be the Boy Scouts...

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I think this is also much bigger in the States than in Canada because they are still about 10 years behind us on this issue.

Course most of our media comes from there and a lot of the culture is dictated by them, so it's big news. Not saying it shouldn't be, but I look forward to the day when it isn't, and I think in Canada, we are pretty close to there, so we don't see it as big a thing.

That's really only accurate for portions of the US, there are many areas of the US that were out in front of gay rights issues well before anywhere in Canada. The US is held back on a national level on many issues by portions of the South and the Midwest, and a government structure (and media attention) that allows vocal minority voices to carry a disproportionate amount of weight. I don't think the proportion of homophobic/bigoted people is all that different in the two countries, it's just that Canada does a much better job of ignoring and marginalizing the antiquated minority.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by valo403

That's really only accurate for portions of the US, there are many areas of the US that were out in front of gay rights issues well before anywhere in Canada. The US is held back on a national level on many issues by portions of the South and the Midwest, and a government structure (and media attention) that allows vocal minority voices to carry a disproportionate amount of weight. I don't think the proportion of homophobic/bigoted people is all that different in the two countries, it's just that Canada does a much better job of ignoring and marginalizing the antiquated minority.

And there are pockets of Canada that a gay hockey player would definitely not be well received. I can imagine it would be tough playing in some of the towns of the WHL as an openly gay athlete.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

And there are pockets of Canada that a gay hockey player would definitely not be well received. I can imagine it would be tough playing in some of the towns of the WHL as an openly gay athlete.

any different than some of those towns in the Q or OHL?

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

any different than some of those towns in the Q or OHL?

There are jerks everywhere. Universal rule of thumb.

Cowperson

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

Oh god, the Muppets are next

They've had stuff up their backsides for years

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

They've had stuff up their backsides for years

And really, who among us hasn't?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

And really, who among us hasn't?

Me dammit. Stop trying to convert me!

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by valo403

That's really only accurate for portions of the US, there are many areas of the US that were out in front of gay rights issues well before anywhere in Canada. The US is held back on a national level on many issues by portions of the South and the Midwest, and a government structure (and media attention) that allows vocal minority voices to carry a disproportionate amount of weight. I don't think the proportion of homophobic/bigoted people is all that different in the two countries, it's just that Canada does a much better job of ignoring and marginalizing the antiquated minority.

Mmmm, I dunno about that. I mean I agree with your comments about the south and the midwest, and the division of power in the US that gives states more say to their governance than provinces up here. But to say there were places in the US ahead of Canada, I'm not so sure.

The biggest one I could think of was LA, and even California defeated equal rights marriage by referendum a few years ago.

Even conservative Canada is often more liberal than liberal America as has been noted several times on this board.

I agree you can't paint everyone with the same brush, but I am pretty confident that even on average we've been ahead of the curve on this one. Heck, even when you look at it worldwide we were the third or fourth country to legalize gay marriage.

[saskflames69]

I thought Rudy Gay would've been the first NBA'er to come out.

[1stLand]

SO when does the first Male Figureskater come out as being openly Hetero?

[ernie]

I know it seems to be not a big deal to many of us, but geez there is a story today on CNN about a school in Georgia that is having their first non-segregated prom. It had to be put on by the students themselves. This is a big deal and kudos to Collins for his bravery and honesty.

[saskflames69]

Originally Posted by ernie

I know it seems to be not a big deal to many of us, but geez there is a story today on CNN about a school in Georgia that is having their first non-segregated prom. It had to be put on by the students themselves. This is a big deal and kudos to Collins for his bravery and honesty.

Yes but that's the South, where people are a different type of special.

[Badger Bob]

Originally Posted by worth

The climate in Canada vs. the US is very different. I don't think most people think it's a big deal here, but I think this is a huge deal in the States. I think this will be a problem for him next year unfortunately.

It's not a huge deal in the States. The news media is obsessed with the issue, and those who give a flip about what "trends" on Twitter care about it.

Meanwhile, it turns out that he had a (female) fiance:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...6pLid%3D306510

Then, his own twin brother didn't know until recently?

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Badger Bob

It's not a huge deal in the States. The news media is obsessed with the issue, and those who give a flip about what "trends" on Twitter care about it.

Meanwhile, it turns out that he had a (female) fiance:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...6pLid%3D306510

Then, his own twin brother didn't know until recently?

Your tone seems to suggest you think he's making this up? You do realize that he admitted to having a fiancee in the SI article.

When I was younger I dated women. I even got engaged. I thought I had to live a certain way. I thought I needed to marry a woman and raise kids with her. I kept telling myself the sky was red, but I always knew it was blue."

Stop dancing around what you want to say and just come out and say it already.