[News] Flames sign Reto Berra

[Stampede2TheCup]

Originally Posted by FAN

I think that is a terrible plan, especially for a team with little success at drafting and developing goalies. You want to draft the best prospect available. It would be foolish to draft a goaltender because the team needed a goaltender in an earlier stage of development. And presumably, the team's scouting is good enough to recognize early on which goaltending prospects will never establish themselves at the NHL level so that the team doesn't waste time and resources developing him. It's like letting go of Joey Leach. Obviously our management and scouts weren't high on him so the team let him go. You can't go thinking "well we don't have Erixon... Brodie will be up in the NHL, Ramage is still in college, we need a guy in the AHL his age so let's sign him."

Furthermore, goaltenders often take years to develop and they need to play. It's not uncommon for even the top goalie prospects to spend at least two years in the AHL. You really don't need more than one guy to groom in the AHL for 2-3 years because you want your top goalie prospect getting the majority of the games (2 is not a problem, 3 is a crowd). Some goalies also get burried in a team's system and don't respond well when they are constantly looking over their shoulders.

It's really not a terrible plan. Having more prospects in a position doesn't automatically mean they're grabbing anybody all willy-nilly to have more of them. It's not only possible to work at acquiring quality depth at a position, but there's also ample room for them all to develop since one is in college and one is probably happy staying in Europe next year. If after next season it's crowded at the AHL/NHL level it will be a good problem to have since it would be due to the group performing well. Also, just because the one that perhaps has the highest chance of success is the youngest, it's still only logical to develop the older ones if they are legitimately showing real NHL potential. History of the team developing goalies is pretty much irrelevant since everyone involved in the development weren't part of that history.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by blah blah

It's really not a terrible plan. Having more prospects in a position doesn't automatically mean they're grabbing anybody all willy-nilly to have more of them. It's not only possible to work at acquiring quality depth at a position, but there's also ample room for them all to develop since one is in college and one is probably happy staying in Europe next year. If after next season it's crowded at the AHL/NHL level it will be a good problem to have since it would be due to the group performing well. Also, just because the one that perhaps has the highest chance of success is the youngest, it's still only logical to develop the older ones if they are legitimately showing real NHL potential. History of the team developing goalies is pretty much irrelevant since everyone involved in the development weren't part of that history.

I think you missed my point. I have no problem with prospect depth. I disagreed with texcritic's idea that purposefully "staggering" the team's goalie prospects in terms of where they are in their development is a good one.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FAN

I think you missed my point. I have no problem with prospect depth. I disagreed with texcritic's idea that purposefully "staggering" the team's goalie prospects in terms of where they are in their development is a good one.

"purposefully 'staggering' the team's goalie prospects" is merely another way of saying that the team should be regularly and consistently drafting goalies. Or should the Flames just forego drafting players at this position altogether because of their past developmental track record?

[Caged Great]

With how random goalies are in terms of which develop and how well they do, it really is a matter of continuing to throw darts at the board until one or more connect. Berra and Ramo to me are both worthy of getting a shot. If they both miss, then you bring Ortio and Brossoit in and give them a legit shot, and if they don't work bring Gillies and yet to be acquired guy in and so on until you get someone that is really good.

That's the problem with goalies. There really is no way you can tell how good or bad they will be when they are 18. Patrick Roy was a 3rd rounder, Brodeur was the 20th overall pick and not the top goalie selected, Dominik Hasek was a really late pick, Belfour and Joseph weren't even drafted and those are just the top 5 goalies of the past 30 years, let alone all the other very good goalies in the league like Kipper himself or Lundqvist, or Rinne.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by FAN

I think you missed my point. I have no problem with prospect depth. I disagreed with texcritic's idea that purposefully "staggering" the team's goalie prospects in terms of where they are in their development is a good one.

what do you think is a better idea? taking one of every 10 years and using every pick to draft a goaltender?

The man is suggesting nothing more than regularly drafting goaltenders so you theoretically always have someone ready in case of injury, struggles, trade... etc. That is the perfect way to do it.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

"purposefully 'staggering' the team's goalie prospects" is merely another way of saying that the team should be regularly and consistently drafting goalies.

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

what do you think is a better idea? taking one of every 10 years and using every pick to draft a goaltender?

The man is suggesting nothing more than regularly drafting goaltenders so you theoretically always have someone ready in case of injury, struggles, trade... etc. That is the perfect way to do it.

I'm saying it deviates from the principle of drafting the best player/prospect available. Why is that so hard to understand? As far as I know, the Flames don't put goalies on a separate list on draft day. They are ranked and included in the master list that Feaster reads off of on draft day. The team should take the best prospect available and not deviate from that so that the team can regularly draft a goaltender. And there are plenty of people who don't believe in drafting goaltenders at all, although I'm not one of them. The point is that the chances are the team is not going to go many years without drafting a goaltender if they believe in drafting goaltenders and follow their draft lists. All I'm saying is that the team shouldn't purposely draft goaltenders just so they have one who is in a different development stage as other goalies in the system because what you're doing is drafting based on position and bypassing the better prospect.

And Alberta_Beef, I'm not sure your point about having someone ready in case of injury, struggles, trades etc. is relevant here considering we're talking about having goaltenders in different stages of development. I never said anything about not having a backup goaltender or having a prospect down in the AHL that the team is trying to develop. My point is goalies need playing time and you shouldn't have too many guys you're trying to develop down in the AHL. I think it's safe to assume that the 18 year old, 19 year old, and 20 year old goaltender playing in the CHL or college will not be "ready in case of injury, struggles etc."

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FAN

I'm saying it deviates from the principle of drafting the best player/prospect available. Why is that so hard to understand?

No, it doesn't. I think the "best player available" is a system that probably only works through the first two rounds of the draft. In both of Feaster's previous drafts he drafted two goaltenders, both after the second round. Once you get that deep into the draft, then determining who is the "best player available" probably results in the choice between 5–10 players per selection. At that point, selecting a goaltender with one of the team's final four or five selections hardly amounts to missing opportunities to draft better players.

Originally Posted by FAN

As far as I know, the Flames don't put goalies on a separate list on draft day. They are ranked and included in the master list that Feaster reads off of on draft day. The team should take the best prospect available and not deviate from that so that the team can regularly draft a goaltender.

I don't think that this is, nor should it be the Flames approach. I'm merely suggesting that there seems to be an emphasis right now on ensuring that there are lots of goalies in the system (only two of them have been drafted by Feaster; he traded for the others).

Originally Posted by FAN

All I'm saying is that the team shouldn't purposely draft goaltenders just so they have one who is in a different development stage as other goalies in the system because what you're doing is drafting based on position and bypassing the better prospect.

I agree, but I also do not think that it is at all impossible to accumulate talent in the crease by regularly drafting goaltenders, and not at the expense of bypassing the "best player available". As mentioned above, when it gets down into the 3–7th round, determining who indeed is the "best player available" is much, MUCH more fluid. Who was the best available player between Gillies, Chris Driedger, Chandler Stephenson, Shayne Gostisbehere, and Chris Calnan in last year's draft? Was it unquestionably Gillies, or would we even know it if the Flames bypassed better prospects at this stage? Again, it is too difficult to make these sorts of judgments about players this deep in the draft.

[Enoch Root]

draft a goalie every second year