Royal Bank apologizes to outsourced workers

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Maybe if they can't pay reasonable wages, they aren't a viable business and shouldn't be around anyway?

I mean, this is capitalism, right?

Yes, in theory. But when it's industries that keep our economy afloat like Oil and Gas, it's in everyones best interest to have measures in place to keep things running.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Maybe if they can't pay reasonable wages, they aren't a viable business and shouldn't be around anyway?

I mean, this is capitalism, right?

Nobody is forcing them to work for those wages. Get some education or job training, and if you can't, take the job and get some experience you can use when applying for other jobs.

[Devils'Advocate]

The TFW program was meant to bring in people from other countries to fill positions where they couldn't find people in Canada skilled enough to fill those positions NOT couldn't find people in Canada poor and desperate enough to fill those positions.

If we are okay with bringing in TFW because you can't find people willing to work for minimum wage after 10:30, then what's to stop a company from bringing in TFWs because they need people that will work even when they are sick? Or work 7 days a week? "I can't find people within Canada willing to work to the bone day in and day out, so we have to look elsewhere"? That can't be right.

If you can't find people willing to work late or on weekends, make those shifts pay more. Don't go get desperate people from desperate countries that are willing to be exploited. And if you can't make a go of it without exploiting people, then you shouldn't be in business in the first place.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Yes, in theory. But when it's industries that keep our economy afloat like Oil and Gas, it's in everyones best interest to have measures in place to keep things running.

In small towns TFW programs are vital to keeping businesses afloat when there isn't enough workers.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Yes, in theory. But when it's industries that keep our economy afloat like Oil and Gas, it's in everyones best interest to have measures in place to keep things running.

Oil and Gas are more profitable than they've ever been and are paying historically low royalty rates.

If they can't afford to pay people, they are doing something wrong.

How did all these companies exist before Temporary Foreign Workers?

I mean, during the labour shortage in Alberta referred to earlier, when fast food places were closed because they couldn't find enough staff, isn't that a good thing? Low unemployment, high wages, satisfying positions? Lots of potential starting positions for part-time or youth workers? Competitive wages to entice attractive employees for the restaurants that remained in business?

[Yakbutter]

Originally Posted by Dion

In small towns TFW programs are vital to keeping businesses afloat when there isn't enough workers.

Name one of these small Canadian towns that is running on the backs of foreign workers.

[Yakbutter]

Originally Posted by Dion

Nobody is forcing them to work for those wages. Get some education or job training, and if you can't, take the job and get some experience you can use when applying for other jobs.

Woosh.

That's the point. Typical part time fast food jobs that used to go to youth are now being filled by TFW. People are applying to these jobs and they are being turned away because they have TFW in the positions.

Whether you like it or not, it's the Canadian governments mandate to look out for Canadians in THEIR interests, not to find way to help multinational corporations increase profits. Jobs in Canada go to people who live in Canada pretty easy to understand.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Dion

If a franchise owner of a local McDonalds decided to pay more, chances are he would have to raise the prices of the food being served.

Would you support higher food costs to pay employees better?

These franchise owners basically have a license to print money as it is. I know one franchise owner of a Tim Horton's here in Ontario (they own 2 franchises) and they are rolling in it. They also always leave their restaurants short staffed to scrape every last dollar they can.

They don't "need" to raise prices in order to pay better wages. But you're right that they probably would.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

Woosh.

That's the point. Typical part time fast food jobs that used to go to youth are now being filled by TFW. People are applying to these jobs and they are being turned away because they have TFW in the positions.

Whether you like it or not, it's the Canadian governments mandate to look out for Canadians in THEIR interests, not to find way to help multinational corporations increase profits. Jobs in Canada go to people who live in Canada pretty easy to understand.

Not every place is abusing the TFW. What part of that don't you understand?

Target the places abusing the system instead of unfairly labeling everyone.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

These franchise owners basically have a license to print money as it is. I know one franchise owner of a Tim Horton's here in Ontario (they own 2 franchises) and they are rolling in it. They also always leave their restaurants short staffed to scrape every last dollar they can.

They don't "need" to raise prices in order to pay better wages. But you're right that they probably would.

Depends on who you talk too. A well staffed and run franchise will make the owner money. The previous owner (McD's) here in High River didn't do that and ended up selling his franchise.

The A&W across the street is always empty due to poor service and very few residents will patronise that place.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

Name one of these small Canadian towns that is running on the backs of foreign workers.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/alberta...kers-1.1236262

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Dion

Fast food was never meant to be a permanent job unless you were looking to advance higher in the company. There's also the evenings and weekend and sometimes grave yard hours that people refuse to work. It's not just about "minimum wage" as you would like everyone to believe. Fast food places can't survive on a M-F.... 9-5 type hours of operation.

What difference does it make if it's a permanent job or not?

I'm in the woodworking business myself. Lots of woodworking over here. Sawdust galore when I really get going. In my hair, ears, christ the stuff gets everywhere.

Anyway, last year I got a big job, woodworking the hell out of several houses and I couldn't handle it all on my so I looked to hire some guys to help me out.

I offered 15 bucks an hour, which is way better than minimum wage, but I couldn't find anybody to take the job. I was told that a decent woodworker can make more than that working his wood somewhere else.

In the end, I lost a couple of the jobs because I just couldn't keep up.

Now, judging by the theme of much of this discussion, it wasn't my fault for not offering enough money, it was the fault of the "them" who wouldn't take what I was offering. I would have been perfectly justified in applying to the government for some TFW help, because I couldn't find any Canadians to do the job.

Of course that would have been bull####. I don't even sell fries.

Originally Posted by Dion

It's hard to get jobs when you don't have a work history and sometimes taking a low wage is part of that process.

Oh for sure. And one day this miserable spring the sky will be blue too.

I get that people have to take low wage jobs. I did it myself. What you don't seem to accept is that they don't always have to take the lowest paying job just because.

[Yakbutter]

Originally Posted by Dion

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/alberta...kers-1.1236262

Thanks for the link but I am not buying what they are selling. If a town collapses economically because people will not be able to sell as many cheeseburgers then they might as well give up now.

Also if they are not able to attract people to work at slave wages, then they should raise them and people will start applying for their jobs.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

What difference does it make if it's a permanent job or not?

If it was meant to be a permanent job they would have to pay much higher wages to keep their employees. As it stands it's just a transistional job for people going to school or looking for other work and possibly a second job.

I'm in the woodworking business myself. Lots of woodworking over here. Sawdust galore when I really get going. In my hair, ears, christ the stuff gets everywhere.

Anyway, last year I got a big job, woodworking the hell out of several houses and I couldn't handle it all on my so I looked to hire some guys to help me out.

I offered 15 bucks an hour, which is way better than minimum wage, but I couldn't find anybody to take the job. I was told that a decent woodworker can make more than that working his wood somewhere else.

In the end, I lost a couple of the jobs because I just couldn't keep up.

Now, judging by the theme of much of this discussion, it wasn't my fault for not offering enough money, it was the fault of the "them" who wouldn't take what I was offering. I would have been perfectly justified in applying to the government for some TFW help, because I couldn't find any Canadians to do the job.

Of course that would have been bull####. I don't even sell fries.

Why didn't you offer a better wage? Or was it that you couldn't afford too?

Oh for sure. And one day this miserable spring the sky will be blue too.

I get that people have to take low wage jobs. I did it myself. What you don't seem to accept is that they don't always have to take the lowest paying job just because.

I never said they had to take on the lowest paying job. Getting that first job can sometimes be quite difficult when you have no work experience.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

Thanks for the link but I am not buying what they are selling. If a town collapses economically because people will not be able to sell as many cheeseburgers then they might as well give up now.

Also if they are not able to attract people to work at slave wages, then they should raise them and people will start applying for their jobs.

Fast food places can't compete with oilfield wages. If they did, imagine what the cost of a hamburger would be

[Krovikan]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I offered 15 bucks an hour, which is way better than minimum wage, but I couldn't find anybody to take the job. I was told that a decent woodworker can make more than that working his wood somewhere else.

In the end, I lost a couple of the jobs because I just couldn't keep up.

Now, judging by the theme of much of this discussion, it wasn't my fault for not offering enough money, it was the fault of the "them" who wouldn't take what I was offering. I would have been perfectly justified in applying to the government for some TFW help, because I couldn't find any Canadians to do the job.

No you are the perfect example of someone who shouldn't qualify for TFW, offer market wages and if you can't because you undercut so much stop undercutting. Just because you want to be cheap and work people for less then their worth and keep more of the profit doesn't mean you qualify for TFW it means you are bad at planing and growing your business, also unable to change to market conditions.

[opendoor]

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Dion

Why didn't you offer a better wage? Or was it that you couldn't afford too?

Well, maybe if I charged my customers more, or took a little less for myself, I would have been able to offer an acceptable wage.

It's a fine line. I can't charge the customers too much, and I can't pay the employees too little, and I need to make a profit.

My wife tells me it's my job as the owner of the business to find just the right spot on the fine line and I'd do just fine. She also told me I should definitely not gripe about people who think they have a right to accept a job for less than they are willing to take. Women.

[spetch]

Being in the retail business in a small town I see the need for TFW. My business does not use them as I stay very proactive in trying to find young students to fill my needs. However it is getting tougher and tougher to get these "kids" to work. From 10 to 5 years ago I could fill my student shifts with 2 students with ease, now I need 6 students and still have issues filling some weekends (just Saturdays). Quite frankly they don't want to work. 90% of any resumes that come in just go through the motions to appease their parents. I would call them back for an interview and they either don't answer/return my call.

With the attitudes that I see in a lot of students these days its no wonder they won't go work at a fast food chain. I pay my students more than fair and it is not a tough position compared to working in fast food (the Wendy's night shift sucked, but I wanted my drinking money).

[Dion]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Well, maybe if I charged my customers more, or took a little less for myself, I would have been able to offer an acceptable wage.

It's a fine line. I can't charge the customers too much, and I can't pay the employees too little, and I need to make a profit.

My wife tells me it's my job as the owner of the business to find just the right spot on the fine line and I'd do just fine. She also told me I should definitely not gripe about people who think they have a right to accept a job for less than they are willing to take. Women.

Your wife is right in thinking that a business owner would have some idea of what other wood workers are paying. You also have a right to make a fair profit from your business.

Is it a crime to offer less when that is all you can afford?