Something's gotta give

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by moon

LOL

That's right I don't agree with you so it must be some garbage "moon makes up his mind beforehand."

Hudler has been a second line type of player like expected. He is paid too much for too long and shouldn't be looked at as a solution to our problems but he makes some fancy plays that keep some fans happy and ready to ignore his many flaws.

Others have mentioned Wideman's struggles outside of the offensive zone so I am not alone here. Watching him play 2 minutes on a PP that struggles at times to generate shots let alone chances isn't really that impressive to me. He has been an overall poor player while in Calgary.

It is possible that people can have difference of opinions without cheap, baseless personal attacks.

Every player has flaws and if you go looking for them you're sure to find.

Hudler will go screen the goalie on the pp (one of our few f that will) and has an above average hockey iq. An upgrade on Jokinen many would argue. Wideman brings an element to the team that we lacked last year and is an upgrade over Hannan.

I think why you get targeted is because most ofyour posts have a negative undertone and while we don't have to be Pollyannas about the team being negative Nancy all the time isn't necessary either.

[moon]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

You has your mind made up from day one about Wideman so it's hard to take you too seriously. Wideman has had bad games, he's had some boneheaded plays but he's been our top blue liner for the majority of the season and has mostly been fairly solid.

Little confused about his struggles on the pp. Look at the Cammaleri goal last night, that was 100% because of Wideman.

I said I didn't like Wideman because he was poor defensively and made bad decisions with the puck outside of the PP. Now he has come in and played that way here.

Read comments in this thread saying he was what people thought he would be so if I didn't like that style before he was here it isn't that odd that I don't like now he is here.

He made a pass on the PP last night, great. The next 5 on 3 was crap he was part of that, many other PP's we have had (especially recently) have for the most part been crap with him often playing a majority if not all of the minutes.

[moon]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

I think why you get targeted is because most ofyour posts have a negative undertone and while we don't have to be Pollyannas about the team being negative Nancy all the time isn't necessary either.

I said bringing these guys in wasn't retooling it was shuffling around the deck chairs. Many others have came in talked about them being secondary guys. It doesn't really seem that I am being that negative or really that different in my opinion than many, but some folks have made up their mind on me so they go looking to spin everything I type as negative.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by moon

I said bringing these guys in wasn't retooling it was shuffling around the deck chairs. Many others have came in talked about them being secondary guys. It doesn't really seem that I am being that negative or really that different in my opinion than many, but some folks have made up their mind on me so they go looking to spin everything I type as negative.

You treat everyone that disagrees with you like an idiot. Reap, sow, pot, kettle and all that.

Your attacking two of few players that have been good this season in some misguided attempt of validating your off season ramblings. There is enough to complain about on this team. There is no need to go after two of the pieces worth being satisfied with. Are you going to start one of your rants on Backlund next?

[kipperfan]

I think Hudler has been pretty solid at both ends of the ice, but would actually have to agree with moon that Wideman hasn't been anything special, though I probably wouldn't say "crap". I would say he is definitely living up to the scouting reports we heard on him in the offseason, elite shot and top end power play defencemen, but fairly weak in his own zone and prone to give aways.

He is overpaid and likely to become more so as he gets older, I wish we hadn't signed him. I like Hudler though, really good signing.

[moon]

Originally Posted by kehatch

You treat everyone that disagrees with you like an idiot. Reap, sow, pot, kettle and all that.

Feel free to point out where I do this or point it out to the mods as that seems to be a violation of the rules of the board.

Your attacking two of few players that have been good this season in some misguided attempt of validating your off season ramblings. There is enough to complain about on this team. There is no need to go after two of the pieces worth being satisfied with. Are you going to start one of your rants on Backlund next?

I hardly see how I am attacking Hudler here by pointing out he doesn't do much away from the puck. He has been fine but he shouldn't be free from criticism. Wideman has not been close to one of the top players.

Not sure what point in discussing Backlund would be other than to take the thread OT.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by moon

I said I didn't like Wideman because he was poor defensively and made bad decisions with the puck outside of the PP. Now he has come in and played that way here.

Read comments in this thread saying he was what people thought he would be so if I didn't like that style before he was here it isn't that odd that I don't like now he is here.

He made a pass on the PP last night, great. The next 5 on 3 was crap he was part of that, many other PP's we have had (especially recently) have for the most part been crap with him often playing a majority if not all of the minutes.

If we're being factual here you didn't even say he was good on the PP, leeching off other players. When I proved how wrong you were about that you sheepishly stopped responding.

You've had your mind made up day one about Wideman, you see what you want to see. Beyond stubborn.

[moon]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

If we're being factual here you didn't even say he was good on the PP, leeching off other players. When I proved how wrong you were about that you sheepishly stopped responding.

You've had your mind made up day one about Wideman, you see what you want to see. Beyond stubborn.

I said that his PP numbers were helped by others in Washington and that he wasn't the driving force on their PP and you proved nothing. Didn't sheepishly stop responding but didn't need to get in another long OT discussion with certain posters.

I see what others see in him as well.

[JiriHrdina]

Ok points have been made, take it to pm

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by moon

I said that his PP numbers were helped by others in Washington and that he wasn't the driving force on their PP and you proved nothing. Didn't sheepishly stop responding but didn't need to get in another long OT discussion with certain posters.

I see what others see in him as well.

Talking about Wideman on the power play in the hockey forum would have been off topic? Haha okay, that's new.

Find the thread again moon, facts weren't on your side.

[Flash Walken]

Wideman has benefitted from playing with Brodie this year, who has compensated heroically for widemans porous defense.

Yes, I actually said that Brodie is making Wideman look good and not the other way around.

"Great job defending that 2-1 Brodie!"

Wideman started the season with a bang. First 5 games not much to complain about.

Since game 10, predictably lost from the offensive blue line back.

It is nice to finally have decen puck possession on the pp though.

[CliffFletcher]

NHL teams live an die by their cores. Whether secondary players like Hudler and Wideman have been pleasant surprises doesn't mean much at this point. The team won't see real improvement until we have a top-flight core of players under 27. It's that simple.

Bringing in expensive free agents to plug into secondary roles is just getting a couple nicer pales to bail water with while there's a sucking hole in the bottom of the boat. It's not a bad move, but it's certainly not going to address the big problem.

[dino7c]

Hudler has been the Flames best forward and Wideman the 2nd best d-man. They are not the problem

[kehatch]

The Flames are in last place in the West. Colorado just got at least a point and moved into 14. Minnesota just beat Vancouver as well making the path ahead even murkier.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by kehatch

The Flames are in last place in the West. Colorado just got at least a point and moved into 14. Minnesota just beat Vancouver as well making the path ahead even murkier.

I hear you, but I think the path ahead is much more clearer

[stignasty]

So, how many here are hoping for the Flames to tank over the next couple of weeks to force management to do something at the deadline?

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by stignasty

So, how many here are hoping for the Flames to tank over the next couple of weeks to force management to do something at the deadline?

The unfortunate thing is it is in the Flames best interest to tank. Not for the high draft pick. But to give management a reality check. The fact we have to lose to get the changes we need is really really depressing.

[Teroy]

Hudler and Wideman have been so, so. I'm hoping they rise above their current level of play. This team nees a leader. We need someone who takes charge. We don't need toughness, we need grit.

[the_professsor]

Originally Posted by stignasty

So, how many here are hoping for the Flames to tank over the next couple of weeks to force management to do something at the deadline?

I'm not even convinced if we tank and stay in 15th that we'll sell assets at the deadline. It should be obvious by watching the Flames the last 3 years that that they aren't a playoff team and need to rebuild, yet we don't.

There are clearly some idiots in management, don't know enough to say who specifically, but I'm not convinced they will make the right decision at the deadline, regardless of our position in the standings

[kukkudo]

This off season I hope we see a new management team. Jim Nill/Brian Burke with Ruff as coach.