11 games in...rate the defencemen

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Really? I don't think you are vindicated at all and more trying to push your opinion as fact. IMO he's been by far the best of the 5+ defenders and IMO could possibly replace Giordano as the 4th defenseman. Much better than Sarich or Smith. I think like Moon you have already made up your mind on him and outside of winning a Norris nothing is going to change your opinion of him. He's a good skater and positionally sound. He's a little weak along the boards and coughs up the puck on occasion but most of the time he quietly goes about his business. Couldn't ask for a better depth defenseman IMO.

Well given that the majority rate his play at C or lower, im feeling pretty good right now.

To suggest he pushes Giordano out of the top 4 is lunacy, and the debacle he was when paired with Bouwmeester saw him in the press box the next few games afterwards. He is fighting to stay in the lineup these days, which is about right in my opinion.

[Enoch Root]

I don't want to encourage any kind of name calling or personal insults, but I have to admit, Zevo, that is really funny!

[Diemenz]

I think Jbo's play the last couple games is showing what happens when a player isn't playing every single tough minute possible. Last year Jbo was on the PK, PP, and all the tough even strength minutes.

This Year Jay gets a pass on the PP to the other offensively capable Dmen which allows him to rest. Jay isnt triple shifting the entire game so he has the gas to get up into the plays and still be defensively responsible.

[you got PHANUEFED]

TJ Brodie: A-

Dennis Wideman: A-

Marc Giordano: D

Jay Bouwmeester: A+

Chris Butler: D-

Cory Sarich: D

Derek Smith: B

[calgary2220]

TJ Brodie: A+

Dennis Wideman: A-

Marc Giordano: C

Jay Bouwmeester: B+

Chris Butler: D-

Cory Sarich: C

Derek Smith: B+

[Stay Golden]

There seems to be a significant amount of CP members that have given a lower grade to Butler than the 7th man Smith. Would it be possible for the mods to do a simple "poll".
Who would you like to see as the 6th Dman Butler or Smith?

[GirlySports]

[Itse]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That's not simple, and I'm not sure that's even a pole

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Really? I don't think you are vindicated at all and more trying to push your opinion as fact. IMO he's [Butler] been by far the best of the 5+ defenders and IMO could possibly replace Giordano as the 4th defenseman. Much better than Sarich or Smith. I think like Moon you have already made up your mind on him and outside of winning a Norris nothing is going to change your opinion of him. He's a good skater and positionally sound. He's a little weak along the boards and coughs up the puck on occasion but most of the time he quietly goes about his business. Couldn't ask for a better depth defenseman IMO.

OMG...no, no, no. Just plain wrong.

Look, I was a staunch defender of Butler last year as I didn't want to admit that we got very little back in the Regehr deal, but watching him towards the end of the year, he basically single-handedly ruined Bouwmeester's plus/minus. He has potential and I wouldn't want to give up on him, but I don't see him as a top four defender pretty much ever in this league. His decision making and vision are pretty atrocious and whenever the Flames struggle to get the puck out of their own zone you can bet Butler is on the ice.

For my money, Babchuk is a better overall defender...and that's saying something. Who knows, maybe he can improve and show us something more, but so far this year he's been our worst defenseman.

Oh, and for the poster who asked. I would easily take Smith over Butler as the 6th man.

Bouw-Gio
Wideman-Brodie
Smith-Sarich/Babchuk

[Stay Golden]

pole, poll fixed

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Bouwmeester-A-: JBo has found his offensive touch under Hartley. His defense hasn't fallen off and has been better this year despite a struggling Gio.

Giordano-C+: A passing grade, but Gio hasn't seemed comfortable or confident at all this year. He's hesitating a lot and his decision making has suffered because of it leading to a -4. It's not his physical tools that seem to be an issue, so I'm sure he'll get better as we go along.

Wideman-A: Not overwhelming or dominating, but Wideman has been doing well in all 3 zones and helped to improve our powerplay drastically.

Brodie-B: Has done well in a regular top four role, but has panicked a couple times and made dumb plays you expect of a young player from time to time. Shows flashes of offensive production but hasn't put enough points up for my liking.

Butler-F: He's played himself down from top four minutes to the 7th man on a team that doesn't have a lot of depth on D. He's a team worst -5 in very limited minutes. A guy who has some physical tools but never uses them well. Unless he figures it out there may not be much of a future with the Flames (I see Wotherspoon in his role soon).

Sarich-C: I haven't noticed him, which usually is a good thing for Sarich. He needs to be more physical when he gets in the lineup.

Smith-B-: He's been put in a tough position going in and out of the lineup, but when he's in he always looks solid in his own zone. I wouldn't mind him feeling free to skate the puck up ice and jump in the rush.

Babchuk-TBD

BTW, the goaltending has made this defense look much worse than the numbers suggest, so the ratings are all appropriate.

[Bertuzzied]

I would like to change my grades after this first period.

Wideman F-
Brodie F

[christoph186]

Brodie: A: Playing solid minutes, and his +/- is looking pretty good
Wideman B+: Mostly for how he's playing offensivly, giving us a chance to score goals
Bouwmeester: A: Much better with less minutes.
Gio: B: Haven't really noticed him too much, but he'll get better.
Sarich: C+: Meh, doesn't play a whole lot, at least he throws hits
Smith: C-: Man that delay of game in the 1st against the blues was kinda bad..
Butler: C: Not really doing a whole lot, but hasn't really been awful

[Erick Estrada]

Yep Butler was the problem.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yep Butler was the problem.

That's a total red herring argument. Tonight was a team loss and yes some defensemen who have been good looked awful tonight. Admitted that Smith and Babchuk looked no better tonight as well. Until Butler shows me that he can handle a regular shift, he's gettin' the gears.

[Sakari]

Wideman A
Brodie A
Gio C-
Bouw A-
Butler C-
Sarich C+
Smith D-