2013 NCAA football thread

[valo403]

Originally Posted by nik-

Ok then. You believe that, I'll believe that the schools use the money too. You think that Universities bend over backwards to cater to their football programs so the AD's can direct all that money and none of it hits the faculties?

I don't think so.

Why don't you think so? Make an argument. I've seen the way it works with my own eyes. Football programs bring in a ton of money to build shiny new buildings for football programs. There may be minor spin-offs to the general fund, but for the most part that revenue remains in the athletic department.

Here's a WSJ article that supports that:

Of the 120 athletic departments in college football's top division in 2011, only 19% reported a profit. The profitable schools generally have one thing in common: big-time football. Ohio State University's football team, for instance, earns more than 70% of the revenue generated by all the school's teams. (In most cases, those profits are spent solely on athletics, including others sports; very few schools divert football money to academics).

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...607407806.html

Here's another that demonstrates how most programs don't even generate enough revenue to break even:

Just 23 of 228 athletics departments at NCAA Division I public schools generated enough money on their own to cover their expenses in 2012. Of that group, 16 also received some type of subsidy — and 10 of those 16 athletics departments received more subsidy money in 2012 than they did in 2011.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...idies/2142443/

And another:

While universities and even the biggest athletics programs are not-for-profit organizations, some can generate significant sums from ticket sales, television contracts, and other sources. Most, however, depend on institutional transfers from general funds, student fees, and state appropriations to cover the expenses

Whether or not they earn significant revenue from these sources, virtually all athletics programs receive some form of institutional subsidy. According to 2007 NCAA financial data, half of all top-flight athletic programs rely on at least $9 million in institutional and governmental subsidies to balance their budgets. Even in the most prosperous conference, its members received a median subsidy of $3.4 million.

http://www.knightcommission.org/coll...s101/chapter-3

NCAA football certainly acts as the revenue driver for other athletic programs, without the swim team likely doesn't exist, but the money it generates rarely goes to the general fund, and more often than not athletic departments are taking from the general fund.

[nik-]

I don't think all programs have the luxury of doing this but Alabama, Texas, LSU ... the big dogs? That's just too much money to sit on. Bryant Denny was expanded in 2009 and cost $65 million ... ok, that's a lot. Alabama made a profit of $45 million last year. Probably not much less in the previous three years. That money isn't just sitting in an account and it can't all be accounted for in facilities expansion. Again, that is profit, after all the program related expenses.

It's too much for these big schools to just be for facilities.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by nik-

I don't think all programs have the luxury of doing this but Alabama, Texas, LSU ... the big dogs? That's just too much money to sit on. Bryant Denny was expanded in 2009 and cost $65 million ... ok, that's a lot. Alabama made a profit of $45 million last year. Probably not much less in the previous three years. That money isn't just sitting in an account and it can't all be accounted for in facilities expansion. Again, that is profit, after all the program related expenses.

It's too much for these big schools to just be for facilities.

Source?

Alabama's athletic department turned a profit of $13mil last year, one of only 23 programs at public schools to be in the black.

Upgrades in facilities from football to track to tennis in recent years also come at a cost. In the 2012 fiscal year, debt service and maintenance on athletic facilities topped $21.5 million. There is also the cost of scholarships for more than 400 student-athletes at a cost of $20,511 for in-state students and $33,811 for those coming from other states.

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/articl...NEWS/130729819

[nik-]

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2...ocketed-since/

As Saban's victory total has swelled, so have the university's finances.

Alabama's athletic department brought in $67.7 million in revenue and had a $7.1 million surplus the year before his arrival, according to figures compiled by USA Today. Last fiscal year, Alabama's athletic revenue was $124.5 million and its profit was $19.4 million.

Football alone produced $82 million in revenue and had a profit of $45.1 million.

The only college football programs with greater revenue than Alabama during the last fiscal year were Texas ($103.8 million) and Michigan ($85.2 million).

Four football programs were more profitable: Texas ($77.9), Michigan ($61.6), Georgia ($52.3) and Florida ($51.1). Tennessee's profit was $38 million.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by nik-

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2...ocketed-since/

Football Program =/= Athletic Department.

You're arguing that money goes outside of athletics, the fact is that it rarely happens.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by valo403

Well the NCAA wouldn't have to allow anything, they don't control what the NFL or any other entity that wants to start a competing product does. However here are a number of massive barriers to entry, and a lot of reasons to keep investors away.

what a was not clear in my point is that the NCAA schools would not allow a NFL tier 2 league to start up anywhere near the various programs. Which is where those potential fan bases would come from such as for example in your case i believe Lansing.

A good chunk of rabid NCAA fans are kids that are attending or past alum of that university and the traditions get passed on generation by generation anyways.
I would say the percentage of fans like me that just have always liked a particular University program but have no physical ties to it are slim in comparison.

I am sure that the NCAA would have a strong argument territory wise if the NFL tried to set up shop for a secondary feeder league to the NFL if it was going to dramatically impact their programs.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

what a was not clear in my point is that the NCAA schools would not allow a NFL tier 2 league to start up anywhere near the various programs. Which is where those potential fan bases would come from such as for example in your case i believe Lansing.

A good chunk of rabid NCAA fans are kids that are attending or past alum of that university and the traditions get passed on generation by generation anyways.
I would say the percentage of fans like me that just have always liked a particular University program but have no physical ties to it are slim in comparison.

I am sure that the NCAA would have a strong argument territory wise if the NFL tried to set up shop for a secondary feeder league to the NFL if it was going to dramatically impact their programs.

Well the NCAA couldn't prevent them from setting up near their programs, but in a lot of places their stadiums would be the only viable option, which is one of the biggest barriers to entry any competitor would face. If the NFL were on board, which seems unlikely, they could offer up their stadiums for use, but that would limit the markets available and be pretty difficult from a scheduling perspective. A UM competitor could play at Ford Field, or the Silverdome, but an OSU competitor wouldn't have a local venue to use.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by valo403

Well the NCAA couldn't prevent them from setting up near their programs, but in a lot of places their stadiums would be the only viable option, which is one of the biggest barriers to entry any competitor would face. If the NFL were on board, which seems unlikely, they could offer up their stadiums for use, but that would limit the markets available and be pretty difficult from a scheduling perspective. A UM competitor could play at Ford Field, or the Silverdome, but an OSU competitor wouldn't have a local venue to use.

Absolutely agree with that statement. I would say that just because the Americans are football crazy that even if something like a NFL tier 2 or feeder league emerged it doesn't mean it would be even do close to the numbers of fans that would support it that the NCAA currently draws.
It would end up being another USFL or XFL flop.
I can only speak for myself but wouldn't watch it how about you?
For me the NCAA is all about the Colors, pageantry, stadiums, tradition, and most of all the raw competitive nature that University programs bring out in their athletes.
I honestly prefer the NCAA Football over the NFL but i am a big fan of the NFL and NCAA basketball is all i will watch compared to what the NBA has become.
But there again that is just solely my personal opinion.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Absolutely agree with that statement. I would say that just because the Americans are football crazy that even if something like a NFL tier 2 or feeder league emerged it doesn't mean it would be even do close to the numbers of fans that would support it that the NCAA currently draws.
It would end up being another USFL or XFL flop.
I can only speak for myself but wouldn't watch it how about you?
For me the NCAA is all about the Colors, pageantry, stadiums, tradition, and most of all the raw competitive nature that University programs bring out in their athletes.
I honestly prefer the NCAA Football over the NFL but i am a big fan of the NFL and NCAA basketball is all i will watch compared to what the NBA has become.
But there again that is just solely my personal opinion.

Yeah I don't think I'd watch it. I have a tie to college football, and that dates back to before my time at an NCAA school (grew up a WSU fan). I'm not sure what it is, but there's a different element there. I agree it would basically be a USFL or XFL situation, just with younger players.

The interesting thing for me is what happens if you make college football semi-pro but keep the school tie ins, basically just license out the names. Would that preserve the qualities we like enough to work? A very far off scenario, but something similar could happen in the not too distant future.

[transplant99]

NCAA president Mark Emmert on Thursday said college sports' governing body would stop selling individual jerseys and other team-related memorabilia on its website, calling the practice a "mistake" and admitting others might view it as hypocritical.

The NCAA's decision comes on the heels of ESPN college basketball analyst Jay Bilas exposing the controversial enterprise on Twitter earlier this week. Bilas criticized the NCAA for selling jerseys of popular college basketball and football players on its ShopNCAAsports.com website.

Good work Jay....they simply had no out on this one.

[Gugstanley]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=oTPdTS2sYpc

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Absolutely agree with that statement. I would say that just because the Americans are football crazy that even if something like a NFL tier 2 or feeder league emerged it doesn't mean it would be even do close to the numbers of fans that would support it that the NCAA currently draws.
It would end up being another USFL or XFL flop.
I can only speak for myself but wouldn't watch it how about you?
For me the NCAA is all about the Colors, pageantry, stadiums, tradition, and most of all the raw competitive nature that University programs bring out in their athletes.
I honestly prefer the NCAA Football over the NFL but i am a big fan of the NFL and NCAA basketball is all i will watch compared to what the NBA has become.
But there again that is just solely my personal opinion.

College football is amazing, cities HATE each other, people yell at eachother when they see someone wearing their schools shirt at an airport miles away from their school.

it's the alama mater, fight songs, traditional rivalry games, it's legacies that go to a school like their dad and uncle, it's the pride that you get when your beat your rival.

it's the jokes that are made about your rivals, it's regional hatred.

I like the NFL too, once they get paid millions it loses its luster, the rivalries are nothing like college. You got guys for 4 years if you're lucky, if they're great you have em for 3 years.

College football is ten fold better than the NFL.

as for the not paying the players I'm 10000000% with them. They get plenty for their athletic ability. Hell most of these kids wouldn't be able to get into those colleges if it weren't for their athletic ability.

It's also not like they're living meal to meal either, they get free room and board, books, food, clothes, insurance, tutors, and well if they're out of state students (trent richardson) they get over 100k worth of education just because they can run with a ball.

They get treated like KINGS on campus, they get whatever they want.

They want to be paid? lol fine, pay for your education like the rest of us and get a real job instead of a open door to the NFL.

but don't worry, with all the rule changes the game will be changed to the point of no contact in 20 years that it wont be around.

any way, Florida Sr. WR Andre Debose tore his ACL two days ago. This kid was a 5* out of highschool and suppose to be the next Percy Harvin, he tore his hammy off the bone the summer of his Frosh season and never really became anything. He should get a medical redshirt and get another year to play.

A true Frosh LB Matt Rolin who blew his ACL last year in HS football tore it again today.

with that being said, this is the first time we have had the same OC in back to back years in 5 years. But the biggest thing is that we have a full allotment of offensive linemen for the first time in 3 years. two couldn't play last year due to transfer rules and will be starters.

Fred Taylor's boy Kelvin is a true Frosh this year and is a stud, he wont start but he will get solid time behind Matt Jones who caught a terrible virus that put him in the hospital for a little while. He and QB Driskel who had an appendectomy practiced the first time today.

Florida should be in the running for the East, USCe and UGA will be tough games, LSU will be a tough one too.

[tvp2003]

I switched from NFL to NCAA about 8-9 years ago... love the tradition that College football has, not to mention the added dimension of teams recruiting new players and graduating current ones. Keeps things fresh and the storylines interesting -- not just another "Brady versus Manning" game (although it is fun to see who emerges from College and is able to make it in the pros).

Originally Posted by PIMking

Fred Taylor's boy Kelvin is a true Frosh this year and is a stud, he wont start but he will get solid time behind Matt Jones who caught a terrible virus that put him in the hospital for a little while. He and QB Driskel who had an appendectomy practiced the first time today.

Fred Taylor's got a kid who's in college now?!? Oh man, I feel old...

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Good work Jay....they simply had no out on this one.

But they went the wrong way. They should expand the practice and divide the profit into thirds: Specific player royalty payment/Specific university athletic department/ all NCAA player stipend fund by sport.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Still not convinced the NCAA will actually be able to do anything, but I don't see how anyone can believe Johnny (Signed) Football didn't get paid. I'm guessing he didn't sign 4,400+ autographs for fun.

Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel signed autographs and memorabilia for dealers in two additional sessions -- one in South Florida after the Discover BCS National Championship Game in early January; the other in late January in Houston, sources have told "Outside the Lines."

Florida-based autograph dealer Kevin Freistat backed and helped organize the additional two sessions, sources with knowledge of the events said. The sessions add to the other four signings reported last week by "Outside the Lines."

Freistat runs an autograph company out of Florida called KLF Sports and has exclusive deals with Sugar Ray Leonard, Muhammad Ali, Albert Pujols, Alex Rodriguez and Chipper Jones. Sources told "Outside the Lines" the Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback signed at least 1,500 items in each of the two sessions, but there was no indication whether he accepted money.

The Freistat signings, combined with four sessions previously reported by "Outside the Lines," would make six signings for three brokers in three states in less than a month for Manziel. Sources said he signed his name more than 4,400 times.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...ssions-sources

[nik-]

I'm guessing that no one outside of the NCAA gives a ####.

[tvp2003]

What kind of idiot jeopardizes their eligibility by doing a bunch of autograph signings? Especially for a kid who apparently comes from a family of wealth -- even if you're doing them for free, what's the point?

[valo403]

That family of wealth is also a family of criminals. Pretty interesting read about the extended Manziel family.

http://deadspin.com/the-long-con-how...ica-1040593220

[Stay Golden]

^
Quite the colorful past. "The Dixie Mafia".
Johnny Football's family has some interesting stories they could tell.
I bet there was a larger number of enforcement beatings for unpaid Gambling debt's and not just the 1 Murder charge. That tends to go hand in hand with the Gambling and racketeering game.

[nik-]

No one else finds that article disgusting?

People complain about a kid living it up and enjoying the fame, but a journalist can go back to the 20's to smear his family?

WTF did I just read? That is sad, and I'm far from a Manziel fan.