Let's Talk About: T.J. Brodie

[Goodlad]

I've been very happy with Brodie's progress, but any talk of him becoming an elite defenseman is beyond premature. He's got a long ways to go before he's considered one of the best defenseman in his draft class (Karlsson, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Myers, Bogosian, delZotto, Hamonic, Sbisa, Schenn...) let alone in the entire NHL.

[Husky]

A smooth skating D who is great for a transition game. Where he somewhat lacks is a true physical game and at times defensive position. The latter can be somewhat worked on with more experience.

I see him as a very strong #3D going forward. A potential good D partner for him down the road is Wotherspoon.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

With the way Brodie skates, a little more experience and veteran savvy will make him a highly effective defenseman. Although he may not end up an "elite" defenseman, skating and smarts could allow him to be a very effective top 3 (on the team) d-man into later ages.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Why bring it up then? It's clearly a ridiculous comparison.

For discussion, it's a discussion forum afterall!

If a coach can make that kind of comparison, there's probably more to his potential than the pessimist view. I don't know if the comparison is necessarily a bad one. Keith's strengths are his mobility, his ability to rush the puck, his ability to make a good first pass. These are all things that Brodie excels at.

What Brodie lacks is the defensive game that Keith has. I guess the hope is that he can develop that with experience.

It's definitely too much to expect a Norris trophy in the future for Brodie, but I can see where the comparison to Keith comes in. Again, it's a comparison, it doesn't mean he's the next Keith.

As for the Fowler comparison. Again, you are talking about similar skillsets. Yes Fowler has put up a 40 point season and is more established in the league, even though they are similar in age; however,this year, their numbers are very comparable. Again, the strengths of both players are their mobility, skating, and poise with the puck.

At this stage, Brodie is the best puck rusher on the Flames and is the most mobile of the Flames defensemen. I know that's not saying much, but he has been, in my mind, an overall better defenceman this year, than established NHL 2nd pairing veterans such as Giordano and Wideman.

[Huntingwhale]

I think Brodie could be a top pair defender...in the future. People forget that most dmen reach their prime in there late 20's/early 30's. I would be at all surprised if Brodie stuck around as a 3-4 defender for a while then suddenly made the leap to top pairing defender in 5+ years from now.

Either way, he shows signs of improving every game. He might make a mistake, but I've noticed that he doesn't make that same mistake again usually. That tells me he is trying to improve and is learning as he goes.

His offense will come with time. Right now his focus seems to be on defense, and that is great. But I honestly think he will become a real stud on the backend in a couple of seasons.

[Galakanokis]

Love Brodie, I think he has a very high ceiling and will be even better in a couple of years when he fills out a little more. It is tough to talk about elite defensemen as in my mind there are very few in the league. There are some good ones but very few elite ones.

One's partner also says a lot about how good a D man is. Look at Weber and Suter. I thought for sure that Weber carried that pairing but now, I'm not so sure. Same with Keith and Seabrook, how do they fair if they ever get split up. Brodie is the main reason I think landing Jones in the draft is an excellent idea. Two young guys growing up together anchoring the defense for years would be awesome.

I love defensemen and I love to watch Brodie play.

[timbit]

Brodie is going to probably be a good NHL D. At this point, he could be projected as topping out as a good second pairing puck mover on a good NHL team. Lots of positive in that.

Where it gets problematic is when you, presently, start comparing him to what Calgary has now ( very weak) and/ or what is coming or comparing him to top 2 pairing guys on contending teams ( very strong).

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

His offense will come with time. Right now his focus seems to be on defense, and that is great. But I honestly think he will become a real stud on the backend in a couple of seasons.

Not to make too too much out of individual plays, but I agree with you re: his defensive focus. I think it is paying dividends: in the game against Colorado, there was a play (1st or 3rd period, forgot exactly which) where Duchene was coming down with speed on Brodie's side and tried to beat him to the outside. Brodie nicely cut him off and took him into the boards. The reason I bring it up is because in the previous game, Duchene did exactly that: came down with speed and beat Brodie wide and cut back in to score.

So it's nice to see Brodie picking up the lessons and applying what he learned. A year or two of figuring out NHL forwards and he could be an extremely effective defenseman.

[_Q_]

I think watching defencemen on TV doesn't do them justice. You never get to see what they do away from the puck or their positioning and you don't really get a feel for how they see the game.

Seeing them live, paints a completely different picture. Everytime I go to the dome, I immediately notice how the forward group has complete confidence in Brodie. He seems to always be in the right position, making the smart pass and being given the puck when the forwards or the other defenceman are kind of stuck.

He's already a solid player and will be an incredible defenceman for us in the near future.

[Roof-Daddy]

A fair comparison for Brodie IMHO, is Keith Yandle.

Similar draft range.
Similar skill set.
Similar size.
Similar AHL production, and games played before making the NHL.

It would be nice to see Brodie's offensive production increase some next season in the same way Yandle's did, but to this point (both 22 years old) very similar in a lot of ways.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

His puck rushing is a real treat to watch. Almost reminds of Doughty's ability to dance up the ice. However he doesn't possess the shot or physical play of Doughty. Brodie has #2 d-man upside, he can be our Bouwmeester replacement.

[Jebus]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

At 22 Keith was an AHL d-man and if anybody at that time projected him as being a top pairing, Norris candidate, Olympian, in 2010 they would have been laughed at.

For example look at his rating in the 2004 HF organization prospect rankings.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...p20_prospects/

Wow, number 17 on that projection, and not even the highest rated Keith in the system. Nutty.
And The Anton was their #1 prospect in 2004? My how the mighty have fallen.

As for Brodie, I am liking his progression, and would be ecstatic if it were to continue to another level or even to a top pairing role. If and when it does plateau, assuming no regression, the organization has to be comended on developing a 4th round pick into a full time top four dman. I would say we are playing with house money now and all further development is just bonus.

[#-3]

Giordano might actually be the best comparable around the league.

They both came out early in his career and exceeded expectations.

Both had to endure exile for a while. Brodie was not happy about going back to the AHL. Gio went to Russia, but still both took a step back in NHL development after raising expectations.

Now he is back and playing top four minutes.

They are both good but not great on both ends of the puck. Neither gives up on plays.

So if I look at his next 5 years,

I expect him to be a very good 2nd pairing guy, or a little in over his head as a first pairing guy.

I have no doubt that either of them could play solid 1st pairing minutes with a guy like Seth Jones, but I do doubt they could be a solid 1st pair together or with Wireman.

[AR_Six]

I don't think he ends up being a #1 or #2 guy, but could be a very good #3 going forward and that is a key guy to have if you're ever hoping to be successful.

The Flames are missing that #1 guy, and that is an issue for a couple of reasons. First, because they hardly ever come available - teams tend to pay out the nose to ensure they never hit UFA, and you saw that even an offer sheet designed to financially cripple the Preds couldn't get Weber out of Nashville. You can't draft them reliably, either - the real, legit #1's don't seem to come out of the top 5 of the draft because defensemen simply don't mature early enough to be recognized at that age (see Johnson, Erik). I think you can basically guarantee that Mackinnon will be a first line player, but you cannot guarantee in any way that Seth Jones will be a first pairing defenseman. So that, for me, is the main challenge going forward - finding that guy.

Subban could be that guy if he goes UFA from the Habs, but I would be shocked if he isn't paid whatever he wants to come back.

[Bingo]

I think he's more of a Rafalski type going forward, .... part of the offence, good on defense but not the shooter or finisher.

Last season I was out of my normal seats for a game and sitting in the corner with some customers and he really stood out to me for one reason; awareness.

Bouwemeester (who I've never been hard on) would track the puck back into our corner without looking back to make reads. He'd already have his mind made up (across to his partner, up the glass, etc), while you could almost see Brodie in a Terminator like way (computer read out assessing the environment) and then making a decision. His head movements were almost like "ok there's option A, there's B, there's C, I like B more than C, and A more than B, so A" and then move the puck.

You can't teach that.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Jebus

Wow, number 17 on that projection, and not even the highest rated Keith in the system. Nutty.
And The Anton was their #1 prospect in 2004? My how the mighty have fallen.

As for Brodie, I am liking his progression, and would be ecstatic if it were to continue to another level or even to a top pairing role. If and when it does plateau, assuming no regression, the organization has to be comended on developing a 4th round pick into a full time top four dman. I would say we are playing with house money now and all further development is just bonus.

Indeed. From an asset management perspective, you could certainly get much more than a 4th round pick for Brodie right now. (I'm not saying we should trade him, we shouldn't, but his value has increased dramatically).

[AR_Six]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Indeed. From an asset management perspective, you could certainly get much more than a 4th round pick for Brodie right now. (I'm not saying we should trade him, we shouldn't, but his value has increased dramatically).

Haha seriously? Yeah, I should think so. I would rate his value as about a first round, #10 overall pick.

[FlameZilla]

Brodie is a really strong secondary player. Another player he reminds me of Andrew Ference. The kind of guy you can rely on for 2nd pairing minutes and power play on a good team. We've got 3 of those guys, IMO: Gio, Wideman & Brodie. With any luvck we can get a legit first-pairing all-rounder/shut-down/Chara-type guy to build around in one of the next drafts...

[sa226]

I really think his potential is that of a 1a dman. Given his development I don't think it is unrealistic to think he has 2-3 years left to reach that.

But it is also highly probable that he slots in as a 3-4 guy. There is nothing wrong with that.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think he's more of a Rafalski type going forward, .... part of the offence, good on defense but not the shooter or finisher.

Last season I was out of my normal seats for a game and sitting in the corner with some customers and he really stood out to me for one reason; awareness.

Bouwemeester (who I've never been hard on) would track the puck back into our corner without looking back to make reads. He'd already have his mind made up (across to his partner, up the glass, etc), while you could almost see Brodie in a Terminator like way (computer read out assessing the environment) and then making a decision. His head movements were almost like "ok there's option A, there's B, there's C, I like B more than C, and A more than B, so A" and then move the puck.

You can't teach that.

You are going to laugh but that's exactly who I think his upside correlates to...was going to put it in my post above. Rafalski was a very high end second pairing puck mover. However, Rafalski had a pretty darn good shot and was a very good PP player.