Whats your stance on gun control ?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by T@T

Oh please!
Every country has poverty including about 11% of Canadians which is close to the Amercans 13% so that is total crap in a hat.

The biggest problem in the USA isn't premeditated gun crimes it's the knee-jerk got pissed off,snapped and shoot the person,the bad day suicides and the accidental shootings. If people didn't have these things laying around like paperweights a lot of families wouldn't have to bury their loved ones.

You're kidding right?

According to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, the United States has both the highest overall poverty rate and the highest childhood poverty rate of any major industrialized country on earth.

http://www.spotlightonpoverty.org/Ex...c-6c5a20c227d2

[Azure]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Because nothing happens in a vacuum, and if you save 150 lives, but the cost is electing more republicans, which in turn takes away access for health care for many, and makes poorer people poorer, then is saving 150 lives worth it? I saw a story where 45,000 people died from lack of health insurance in the US in 2009. Which is the more important issue? Priorities matter in public policy.

Too much decision making is being based on what happens to be sensationalized on the news. My making mandatory a few key safety features on cars, you could save 10,000 lives in a year. Why are we getting all worked up about saving 150 lives. No one seems to care about vehicle deaths, because they don't make the news. But I for one would love it if we could make the highways safer, because that is something that could statistically improve my kids chances of seeing their 18th birthday, and to me that is what matters.

There are way more than 45,000 people per year dying due to a variety of issues including lack of proper health care, lack of proper nutrition, etc, etc.

Issues that affect the lower class or the 46 million Americans living in poverty with more being added each day.

The reason people think gun control works is because they actually think a ban would work. That if you banned assault rifles, the 300 million of them in the US would just magically disappear. And yet the AWB that the Clinton administration implemented didn't do much to make those 300 million disappear.

From there they say it has to be an outright ban. Okay, fine. You want to get rid of them all. But who is going to enforce those bans? ATF? FBI? Local police departments? Where are they supposed to get funding from? Resources? Many police departments have had to deal with less money due to the recession, and there are various news reports of crime going wild in certain areas simply because there are no cops in the area to deal with it.

I absolutely agree that when you form public policy, you have to go with the most bang for your buck. And a gun ban does not give you that.

There are however good options on the table that can work. Magazine size restriction, mandatory background checks, waiting periods and mandatory safety courses prior to obtaining a firearms license.

But hey, I'm just a gun apologist.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Azure

I'm far from a gun apologist.

I just hate it when people like Duffman troll their hatred for guns in every SINGLE thread that has something to do with firearms.

Ban this, ban that. Must be nice living in a black and white world.

You make it sound like hating guns is a bad thing. Hating black people is bad, being intolerant towards the LGBT community is bad. Guns are inanimate objects that are designed to kill. There is no way to say "hatred for guns" like it's a bad thing.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by theinfinitejar

You know neither handguns or AR-15s are banned in Canada right?

Try holstering a handgun or strapping an AR-15 on your back and walk down the street and see what happens.

This will likely never be seen in any other civilized country.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by T@T

Try holstering a handgun or strapping an AR-15 on your back and walk down the street and see what happens.

This will likely never be seen in any other civilized country.

Is that Somalia? or the US? they have the same kind of regulations on guns.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Azure

I'm far from a gun apologist.

I just hate it when people like Duffman troll their hatred for guns in every SINGLE thread that has something to do with firearms.

Ban this, ban that. Must be nice living in a black and white world.

Yes, it is, it is nice living in a black and white world and I pity the folks like you who refuse to face the reality that guns kill innocent people, and the US govt lets it happen, as of now. I really hope they change that, and there are more people are able to live longer lives.

[driveway]

The second amendment was a mistake. A 12,000 person a year mistake. Step one to dealing with the firearm issue in the United States is repealing the 2nd amendment.

Step two is beginning to deal with poverty.

Step three is the gradual confiscation of weapons.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by flameswin

You make it sound like hating guns is a bad thing. Hating black people is bad, being intolerant towards the LGBT community is bad. Guns are inanimate objects that are designed to kill. There is no way to say "hatred for guns" like it's a bad thing.

Oh please.

You're choosing not to base you belief that guns should no exist on reality. It is a completely delusional opinion.

Guns will not disappear regardless of what kind of 'ban' you put into place. You can't make 300 million firearms disappear.

This is what people who actually can get around the irrational hatred of firearms are saying. So what is the next best option? The obvious answer is targeting the people MORE likely to be involved in crime, and helping them rise above the life of crime that they feel is their only option.

Nfotiu is 100% correct when he says that the chances of being shot in the white suburban neighborhood is the same in Canada and the US. The chances of being involved in a school shooting is also VERY, VERY slim. This does not make the school shootings any easier to deal with. But it does beg the question. Where are these shootings happening? And how do you prevent them. Do you prevent them by taking guns away from the people in white suburban America, or do you target the guns, and as a result the violence and crime in the areas where gun crime is more likely to happen. I.E. poor, urban America.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Yes, it is, it is nice living in a black and white world and I pity the folks like you who refuse to face the reality that guns kill innocent people, and the US govt lets it happen, as of now. I really hope they change that, and there are more people are able to live longer lives.

Weird.

I know families that have passed down firearms from generation to generations and not a single one of them has been killed by those firearms.

Who exactly are you trying to target here with your outright ban of those firearms you hate so much?

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Weird.

I know families that have passed down firearms from generation to generations and not a single one of them has been killed by those firearms.

Who exactly are you trying to target here with your outright ban of those firearms you hate so much?

Weird,

I read about a bunch of 6 year olds going to school, minding their own business, not bothering anyone, and being shot dead by someone with a gun.

[missdpuck]

So Chris Kyle, the Navy SEAL who wrote American Sniper, was killed at point blank range at a rifle range where he was with another guy who had PTSD ? Apparently this happened last night...

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

So Chris Kyle, the Navy SEAL who wrote American Sniper, was killed at point blank range at a rifle range where he was with another guy who had PTSD ? Apparently this happened last night...

If only he was armed he would've been able to protect himself.

[missdpuck]

In Texas no less.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

If only he was armed he would've been able to protect himself.

If only.

I mean lets ignore the fact that he was working with guys coming back from overseas that had PTSD.

Which if course just goes to show a problem with foreign policy more than it does a problem with 'guns', but hey guns are still more fun to attack.

[flamesfever]

It's easy for Canadians to say to Americans, just be like us and get rid of the guns, but we haven't had 200 years of the "right to bear arms" mindset, we have not suffered a civil war, we don't have the large Black American ghetto problem, the disparity in wealth between the rich and poor is not as severe, we are blessed with way more natural resources.

At the same time we sell 85% of our goods to them, we use their money and expertise to help us develop our resources, we enjoy their technology and research and development, we depend on them for our protection.

So perhaps we should be a little more compassionate, respectful, and be practical in our suggestions.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

It's easy for Canadians to say to Americans, just be like us and get rid of the guns, but we haven't had 200 years of the "right to bear arms" mindset, we have not suffered a civil war, we don't have the large Black American ghetto problem, the disparity in wealth between the rich and poor is not as severe, we are blessed with way more natural resources.

At the same time we sell 85% of our goods to them, we use their money and expertise to help us develop our resources, we enjoy their technology and research and development, we depend on them for our protection.

So perhaps we should be a little more compassionate, respectful, and be practical in our suggestions.

So, if your older brother had some issues and was now a crack addict hurting himself and other innocent people around him, you would be compassionate and respectful?

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

So, if your older brother had some issues and was now a crack addict hurting himself and other innocent people around him, you would be compassionate and respectful?

I'm sorry you're having a problem realizing the difference.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I'm sorry you're having a problem realizing the difference.

Differences are moot, the 200 years of the "right to bear arms" mindset needs to change, the civil war has been over for 150 years and I fail to see what black american ghetto problems have to do with actual gun laws.

Fact is there are too many guns and they are way too easy to optain,if it means harsh stiff penalties can save thousands of innocent lifes how can anyone be against it?

Eventually society gets use to stiff gun laws, The UK did,Japan did,we did as well as just about every other civilized country on the planet.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Azure

Where did I say nothing can be done? All I'm saying is that your ridiculous notion that an outright ban will suddenly keep the 87 people that are killed each day by a firearm not be killed.

It is stupid and naive to think like that.

Why don't we explore the reasons why someone is shooting someone else? Maybe there is an underlying problem that exists that causes people to go murder someone else. Oh right, there have been studies done, and they all concluded that there is a direct link from poverty to crime, and from how effective your welfare system is to how people will not resort to 'crime' to get by.

You want to ban guns because you think the amount of guns is leading to all these shootings. I'm saying they are being caused by other issues, and those issues need to be looked at.

The study on gun violence will be extremely interesting. My guess is they conclude that social conditions more often than not lead to gun crime. Shocking.

Why is it either/or?

There are plenty of good reasons to try to tackle poverty and socio-economic disparity, including reducing the crime that comes with it.

But there are also plenty of reasons to restrict gun ownership that have nothing to do with poverty, such as the ability for mentally disturbed people to go on mass killing sprees and the accidental deaths.

And anyone who wants to make the argument that stopping the legal sale of these guns won't make a dent because criminals generally get them from the black market should read this report:

Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.

The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by T@T

Differences are moot, the 200 years of the "right to bear arms" mindset needs to change, the civil war has been over for 150 years and I fail to see what black american ghetto problems have to do with actual gun laws.

Fact is there are too many guns and they are way too easy to optain,if it means harsh stiff penalties can save thousands of innocent lifes how can anyone be against it?

Eventually society gets use to stiff gun laws, The UK did,Japan did,we did as well as just about every other civilized country on the planet.

The reason the black american ghetto problem has to do with 'gun laws' is because in a lot of cities, up to 75% of the 'crime' is committed by minorities, with African American making up a large portion of those numbers.

It also equals to 75% of gun crime.

The reason why is pretty simple. Poverty, lack of proper welfare, unemployment, etc, etc. Fix those problems, and you fix your gun crime problem.

Of course the way to fix it is to end the war on drugs, but hey....lets all ignore examples from countries like Portugal who have decriminalized drugs which has resulted in lower drug use and less crime. Banning everything is the answer!