Car Collides Head-on with C-Train on 7 Ave

[polak]

Originally Posted by valo403

If the reaction was based solely on a single incident then sure, total overreaction, but it's not. It seems like getting a license is far too easy and there are way too many drivers out there who seem to have no concept of basic save driving skills.

It's not like the driver didn't know how red lights work. They most likely got distracted and didn't even relize they were entering an intersection (I don't know what actually happened).

You can put a person into a 6 month drivers ed program but I don't know if that would stop them from getting distracted or stop things like taking stupid risks or speeding or drinking and driving. Everyone knows about these things and why they're illegal, they just choose to do them because they think they can get away with it.

Idiots will be idiots.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by valo403

If the reaction was based solely on a single incident then sure, total overreaction, but it's not. It seems like getting a license is far too easy and there are way too many drivers out there who seem to have no concept of basic save driving skills.

Well according to these stats, Canadians are actually not bad drivers at all compared to a lot of the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

Seems to me all the "Canadians/Calgarians" are such horribe drivers, is on the same level of truth as "The last country I visited has the hottest women ever!"

[HHW]

Originally Posted by polak

You can put a person into a 6 month drivers ed program but I don't know if that would stop them from getting distracted or stop things like taking stupid risks or speeding or drinking and driving. Everyone knows about these things and why they're illegal, they just choose to do them because they think they can get away with it.

Disagree.

I was as much a high school punk with a P.O.S. car as most, but my old man got me to do a drivers ed. course. If nothing else, I picked up some good habits. i.e. being a more aware driver, scanning for potential problems, etc. By no means perfect, but the course helped. Seeing some videos of crash scenes helped with the risk taking.

My point is, habits can be formed.

Agreed, btw, that if someone insists on being an idiot, nothing is going to help

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Well according to these stats, Canadians are actually not bad drivers at all compared to a lot of the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

Seems to me all the "Canadians/Calgarians" are such horribe drivers, is on the same level of truth as "The last country I visited has the hottest women ever!"

Well that's great, we're better than Afghanistan so nothing to worry about

[polak]

Originally Posted by valo403

Well that's great, we're better than Afghanistan so nothing to worry about

We're better then like 90% of the countries in the world and the ones that are ahead of us are barely so.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by polak

We're better then like 90% of the countries in the world and the ones that are ahead of us are barely so.

I would expect that we would be better than 90% of the countries in the world considering that we are in the top 10% of developed nations. And what exactly does the fact that we're slightly better than country x have to do with anything anyways? We aren't talking about relative traffic safety or licensing regimes, we're talking about the fact that it seems to have become quite easy to get license without having a clue as to how to safely operate a vehicle.

I don't spend a ton of time in Calgary, and the traffic where I live is a totally different beast, but every time I come back I see things that make me go 'how the hell did that person get a license'.

[polak]

You would say that any where you went in the world.
Everyone thinks they're the perfect driver and only other people make mistakes.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by polak

You would say that any where you went in the world.
Everyone thinks they're the perfect driver and only other people make mistakes.

Again, what does that have to do with anything? You're completely dodging the issue.

[polak]

Originally Posted by valo403

Again, what does that have to do with anything? You're completely dodging the issue.

What issue? That it's too easy to get a license?

I don't see the point of going to great lengths to enforce stricter requirements unless it's been shown to make a significant difference in other countries.

From anecdotal experience (there's probably stats to back it up, I'm just too lazy to look for them) I've been to countries where they have far more hoops to jump through to get a license and the quality of driving was no better then here (and a lot of times it was worse).

Hell, in Poland you need to take a 3 month in class course and then 30 hours of in-car lessons before you can do your test but go drive in Poland and tell me how safe you feel. Passing lines are treated like suggestions there.

The difference in Poland however is that everything is close buy. Your town might not have a driving school but the town 15 minutes away will. What are you going to do in Alberta if you live 3 or 4 hours away from a driving school?

[Bunk]

Saw a rental car driving down 7th Avenue today. Always fun seeing the C-Train honking like crazy at them and the driver looking perplexed.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by polak

What issue? That it's too easy to get a license?

I don't see the point of going to great lengths to enforce stricter requirements unless it's been shown to make a significant difference in other countries.

From anecdotal experience (there's probably stats to back it up, I'm just too lazy to look for them) I've been to countries where they have far more hoops to jump through to get a license and the quality of driving was no better then here (and a lot of times it was worse).

Hell, in Poland you need to take a 3 month in class course and then 30 hours of in-car lessons before you can do your test but go drive in Poland and tell me how safe you feel. Passing lines are treated like suggestions there.

The difference in Poland however is that everything is close buy. Your town might not have a driving school but the town 15 minutes away will. What are you going to do in Alberta if you live 3 or 4 hours away from a driving school?

And Poland also has crap infrastructure in much of the country. How about we take a look at Germany, France, Finland, Sweden and Denmark. Comparable infrastructure for the most part and AFAIK much more intensive licensing regimes. Guess where their numbers fall?

I'm not calling for some massive overhaul, but there are without a doubt a number of 'driving schools' out there that have no business teaching people how to drive, let alone declaring them competent for the road. The standards are probably fine, I just don't think they are enforced.

[polak]

Infrastructure shouldn't matter when it comes to driver decisions. Just like I'm not taking Canada's mountain passes into consideration either. As long as there are signs and lines painted they should technically be followed.

Originally Posted by valo403

The standards are probably fine, I just don't think they are enforced.

That I can agree with.
Enforcement is key in my eyes. I think most drivers here are aware of the rules (at least they are when they're doing their test) but I don't think we enforce them well enough. Cops seem to be too concerned with catching people going 20 over to deal with things like traffic circles and riding the left lane.

[Plett25]

Maybe everyone should have to pass a test to renew a driver's license.

I consider myself to be a pretty good driver, but to be honest, in order to pass the test, I'd have to consciously drive very differently than I do in everyday life.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by polak

That I can agree with.
Enforcement is key in my eyes. I think most drivers here are aware of the rules (at least they are when they're doing their test) but I don't think we enforce them well enough. Cops seem to be too concerned with catching people going 20 over to deal with things like traffic circles and riding the left lane.

I agree with that, but I'm talking about the standards that people need to meet to get a license. I find it very hard to believe that the person cruising straight through an intersection from the left turn lane or making a right turn from the middle lane was ever competent enough to earn a license, yet some 'school' out there gave them a pass.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Saw a rental car driving down 7th Avenue today. Always fun seeing the C-Train honking like crazy at them and the driver looking perplexed.

See similar situation daily on Centre St during lane reversal.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Saw a rental car driving down 7th Avenue today. Always fun seeing the C-Train honking like crazy at them and the driver looking perplexed.

Do we need better signage indicating that 7 Ave is not for vehicular traffic? I mean, the trains stations and the darn tracks you're driving on are a pretty good clue, but if this is something that happens quite often...

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Acey

Do we need better signage indicating that 7 Ave is not for vehicular traffic? I mean, the trains stations and the darn tracks you're driving on are a pretty good clue, but if this is something that happens quite often...

The lower deck of the Centre Street bridge has well and truly proven that no amount of signage can defeat people truly dedicated to being stupid.

[ken0042]

What if instead of solid green lights at those intersections, they had "straight arrow" green lights instead. Might make it easier to figure out no turns are allowed.

[NuclearPizzaMan]

Originally Posted by fotze

It would probably be done with better barrier type things, it is usually so hectic, the driver would likely not see any sign anyway.

Plenty of vehicles do use 7th ave though. Utilities, emergency vehicles, transit support vehicles, buses... Better signage will have to do.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Acey

Do we need better signage indicating that 7 Ave is not for vehicular traffic? I mean, the trains stations and the darn tracks you're driving on are a pretty good clue, but if this is something that happens quite often...

The thing is that there are lots of cities with tram systems that run alongside car traffic, so that might not tip everyone off. I like the arrow lights idea, and increased signage couldn't hurt, but I imagine there will always be the occasional person who can't figure it out.