Who would the Flames buyout on the 1 non-cap buy out

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So you think the league will let the Flames over-send the 60M cap in 2013-14? or are counting Ignlia as an expired contract?

The Flames current payroll is 67 M or 68.5 M with Bartschi on the team.

all the player over 1M but Cervenka, Iginla and Bab#### are signed for 2013/14...

The replacements for Cervenka (2nd line centre) would have to be over 2M and the Babchuck replacement will be 800K plus a Million each raise for Butler and Brodie, so they won't be saving a lot of money off their current cap.

Bouwmesster being paid as a top 10 in the league d-man is absolutely not justified..... Having a 3M replacement for him saves over 3.6M in cap space and likely makes the team better.

They will have $12 million in cap space for 2013-3014. THey buy out Stajan and they have over $15 million. They will still be able to make some trades to lower pay roll.

Horak and Sven will be cheap replacements. Butler and Brodie would have to play lights out in a shortened season to get a huge raise. The big question is there enough money to re-sign Iggy? Quite honestly i think he gets traded at the deadline, because this shortened season is going to hurt the flames chances of making playoffs.

As someone else stated that 2013-2014 season will see a lot of teams get worse because of the cap. That's just the way it will be if it is $60 million cap. I think it will end up being $63 million.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by AR_Six

Again, no one buys out a guy when you could trade him. Hate on JBo all you want, but he is a top 4 defenseman and someone will be better off with him than without him, and have the cap space. Even if all you got in return was a 5th round draft pick you'd still be better off trading him to the Coyotes or the Isles or something, and even in a reduced cap environment you'd get more than that for him.

Also, the new CBA is likely to contain a salary retention clause which will allow teams to keep paying a percentage of a player's salary (and take the related cap hit) as part of a trade.

I think that certainly makes Bouwmeester a lot easier to trade.

[Alberta_Beef]

You could explain it a million different ways and Ricardo will still let his blind disdain for Bouwmeester rule his thought process.

[Captain_Obvious]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

You could explain it a million different ways and Ricardo will still let his blind disdain for Bouwmeester rule his thought process.

Funny how the lockout started and he dropped off the map after a summer of spamming the forum every day with the same hate directed at a few select players - and now that a deal looks close it's picked up right where it left off.

[Sylvanfan]

Ricardo has been wishing for the cap to contract significantly for 5 years now I think. At the end of the day, no team is going to spend an extra 6 million in actual dollars to try and fudge 900k in cap savings.

I also think they will find a way to ease the transition. Too many of the teams who can afford larger payrolls are going to get crunched, and the teams who can pick up the extra salary, are ones struggling because the floor is forcing them to spend too much.

[Hunter7]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

No one.

Trade for someone else's anchor, buy them out and receive assets in return.

DiPietro + picks/prospects.

DiPietro's $1.5m buyout would not be an anchor.

Wang has previously bought out Yashin, Witt and Bates.

Isles would prefer DiPietro retire, but they have NEVER given up anything of value, to get another team to buyout their player.

Your suggestion is wishful thinking on your part. I'm not even sure the isles will look to buyout RD before the move to Brooklyn in 2015.
We are more likely to see the Flames buyout Jaybo, then see the NYI buyout DiPietro.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So you think the league will let the Flames over-send the 60M cap in 2013-14? or are counting Ignlia as an expired contract?

The Flames current payroll is 67 M or 68.5 M with Bartschi on the team.

all the player over 1M but Cervenka, Iginla and Bab#### are signed for 2013/14...

The replacements for Cervenka (2nd line centre) would have to be over 2M and the Babchuck replacement will be 800K plus a Million each raise for Butler and Brodie, so they won't be saving a lot of money off their current cap.

Bouwmesster being paid as a top 10 in the league d-man is absolutely not justified..... Having a 3M replacement for him saves over 3.6M in cap space and likely makes the team better.

The Flames current cap hit with nine defenceman is 67 million. It also includes Cervenka's cap hit of 3.775. If Baertschi is moved in, another player is moved out. Babchuk is off the books next year. The Flames are fine and can even afford to go after big name free agents by buying out Stajan.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by blankall

The Flames current cap hit with nine defenceman is 67 million. It also includes Cervenka's cap hit of 3.775. If Baertschi is moved in, another player is moved out. Babchuk is off the books next year. The Flames are fine and can even afford to go after big name free agents by buying out Stajan.

There are only 8 d-men in Gap geek that gets the Flames to 67M.

The Big names UFA is Iginla and maybe Cervenka or replacements

[blankall]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

There are only 8 d-men in Gap geek that gets the Flames to 67M.

The Big names UFA is Iginla and maybe Cervenka or replacements

The Flames only need seven dmen on the roster at once. Not having Cervenka's, Babchuk's, and the eighth dman's hit already puts us below the cap. If Iginla re-signs, it'll be for less than his current 7 million. 5.5 x 4 years is my guess. Buy out Stajan and factor in Comeau's hit off the books, and the Flames have about 7 million to go after a big free agent.

Also keep in mind the sixty million is the extreme case, the cap might not drop the whole ten million. The players may negotiate a drop to 62 or 65 million.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by blankall

The Flames only need seven dmen on the roster at once. Not having Cervenka's, Babchuk's, and the eighth dman's hit already puts us below the cap. If Iginla re-signs, it'll be for less than his current 7 million. 5.5 x 4 years is my guess. Buy out Stajan and factor in Comeau's hit off the books, and the Flames have about 7 million to go after a big free agent.

Also keep in mind the sixty million is the extreme case, the cap might not drop the whole ten million. The players may negotiate a drop to 62 or 65 million.

How dare you bring logic to a debate.

[Phanuthier]

Under this new CBA, would Kiprusoff's cap hit be $1.5M or $5.6M?

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Under this new CBA, would Kiprusoff's cap hit be $1.5M or $5.6M?

I don't think it will change much if any for existing contracts

[dino7c]

The cap won't be 60 million...that is the starting offer

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

How dare you bring logic to a debate.

The Flames have 15 players signed to play in 2013/14. (including baerstchi)

9 forwards ,5 d men and a goalie.

The total cap committed to is 49,296,250.

If the Cap was 60M the Flames would have 10,703,750 to sign 4 forwards, 2 d-men and a goalie.

This would be smallest roster size the Flames have had basically ever.


The important pieces missing are Iginla, Cervenka, Backlund, Butler and Brodie and a backup goalie.

So please show me some logic that the Flames do not have to have a significant buy out of a current contract to ice a NHL calibre roster. Does get rid of Stajans 3.5 and making it signing 8 players for 14.2M work?

IF Iginla signs for a discount 5M then 7 players for 9.2 means we are in the Hunt for the big UFAs.???

The "logic" that you are looking at is that the "opening offer" of a 60M cap and no place to hide bad contracts (Europe, AHL) will not come to fruition. The owners decided to write off the season to keep the costs contained and are going to go along with a 7M raise to last years cap????


Last years cap was 63M. Why would you think that a 60M cap is not a logical possibility.

The GMs were handing out inflated contracts as though there was going to be a 70M cap..... There was a logic that these would be rolled back... but the NHLPA seems to have won on that front.

[Sylvanfan]

Cap was at 64 and not 63. Why would Backlund and Brodie get big raises after one partial season at most? Cervenka...don't even know if he's important yet, and after a part season he could be signed for a lesser cap hit as he'd no longer be on an entry level deal. As for Iginla, if he wants more than 5.5 a season at this point in his career, time to let him loose. Team won't be winning a cup with or without him next season.

Not to mention, Kiprusoff may not return for that final season, and his contract will be grandfathered from the previous CBA. So that could clear up a good chunk. In fact of all the buyouts that one would get the best value as 1 million could clear out nearly 6, but you have to have Ramo in place for a salary under 3 to really consider it.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The Flames have 15 players signed to play in 2013/14. (including baerstchi)

9 forwards ,5 d men and a goalie.

The total cap committed to is 49,296,250.

If the Cap was 60M the Flames would have 10,703,750 to sign 4 forwards, 2 d-men and a goalie.

This would be smallest roster size the Flames have had basically ever.


The important pieces missing are Iginla, Cervenka, Backlund, Butler and Brodie and a backup goalie.

So please show me some logic that the Flames do not have to have a significant buy out of a current contract to ice a NHL calibre roster. Does get rid of Stajans 3.5 and making it signing 8 players for 14.2M work?

IF Iginla signs for a discount 5M then 7 players for 9.2 means we are in the Hunt for the big UFAs.???

The "logic" that you are looking at is that the "opening offer" of a 60M cap and no place to hide bad contracts (Europe, AHL) will not come to fruition. The owners decided to write off the season to keep the costs contained and are going to go along with a 7M raise to last years cap????


Last years cap was 63M. Why would you think that a 60M cap is not a logical possibility.

The GMs were handing out inflated contracts as though there was going to be a 70M cap..... There was a logic that these would be rolled back... but the NHLPA seems to have won on that front.

Can they improve their team, most likely not. It seems you are looking for a home run Stanley Cup contender? The flames will not be that for some years.

The 2013 ufa market is not going to be getting the contracts of past. I would say that a $60 million cap the ufa's will be taking much less just to get on a team, instead of being replaced by rookie contracts. Players are not going to be able to take there time once the ufa market opens. There is only so much money and spots available. That will also effect Cervenka. He would have to have an incredible year to get over $3 million again. There are also trades.

Quite frankly i hope for the $60 million cap ( even though i think it will be higher) just so the flames ownership and management wake up and get rid of some of the aging core and go in a different direction. This will give them a way to save face and trade Iggy and Kipper.

I get why you want Bouw of the team ( so do I) but they are better off waiting until his final year, eat up some of the contract and then trade him at the deadline.

Stajan is all but bought out. Feaster made a comment in the summer on how he felt about Stajans contract. Something to the effect that every manager makes a bad one, when referencing Stajan.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Cap was at 64 and not 63. Why would Backlund and Brodie get big raises after one partial season at most? Cervenka...don't even know if he's important yet, and after a part season he could be signed for a lesser cap hit as he'd no longer be on an entry level deal. As for Iginla, if he wants more than 5.5 a season at this point in his career, time to let him loose. Team won't be winning a cup with or without him next season.

Not to mention, Kiprusoff may not return for that final season, and his contract will be grandfathered from the previous CBA. So that could clear up a good chunk. In fact of all the buyouts that one would get the best value as 1 million could clear out nearly 6, but you have to have Ramo in place for a salary under 3 to really consider it.

64.3 .... but close enough to make my point. Is a 4M drop or a 6M increase more logical for the NHL?

I don't think the Flames owners are looking for value. They were prepared to spend the 65m for 2012/13..... they should be able to absorb the 4.4 write-off of a Boumeester or 4.7 M to buy out Cammalleri to get under the cap.

To buy out Wideman would cost 14M.
To buy out hudler 8M
To buy out stajan 1.6M
to buy out Tanguay 7M
to buy out Kipper 1M

Kipper is the bargain basement option but is the one of the few Flames that was actually playing up to his cap hit..


I think that the Flames have a better chance of being a playoff team with Kipper and Gio/Wideman/Butler/Brodie

than

Ramo and Bouwmeester/Gio/Wideman/Butler

As to the actual $ costs the Flames owners are one of the few team that can cover the extra expenses by raising ticket prices.


To keep Kipper it would be worth extending him for 2 years at 7.5M or 3.75 / year making his last 3 years as a Flame average out to 3M/year.

[moon]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I think that the Flames have a better chance of being a playoff team with Kipper and Gio/Wideman/Butler/Brodie

than

Ramo and Bouwmeester/Gio/Wideman/Butler

Those both look like non-play-off teams (assuming our current core of forwards) and it isn't like those are the only two options.

Getting rid of your best defensman makes no sense, especially when there are a lot of other guys with much worse deals than him on the team.

[Tinordi]

Exactly Wideman at $5 is worse value than Bouw at $6.7.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by moon

Getting rid of your best defensman makes no sense

Here we go. Just like old times.