NFL player kills girlfriend then shoots himself in front of GM and coach

[AR_Six]

You know what *I* think? I think when he was younger, Belcher had a pet cat. He loved this cat, rescued it as a stray and took care of it. Some years later, when Belcher was at the zoo with the cat (which he took everywhere as they were best friends), and saw a clown handing out balloons. When he put the cat down to buy one, it ran away into the hyena pit. Belcher had to watch as his pet cat was torn to pieces by rabid animals. To this day, when he sees balloons or clowns, he goes into a murderous rage. On this particular day, he walked into a surprise party with clowns and that was that. That's probably what the cause was.

... Seriously, is speculation everyone's hobby around here, or what? At this point all you know is that a guy killed his girlfriend and himself. Yes, he was probably mentally ill, since you'd have to be to do something like this. Any further "well I have an opinion on the cause!" is pointless without more context and detail. And taking an event like this and re-directing it to a "concussions in sports" discussion is politicizing the issue pretty quickly following the death of two people and the orphaning of a third.

[normtwofinger]

Originally Posted by AR_Six

You know what *I* think? I think when he was younger, Belcher had a pet cat. He loved this cat, rescued it as a stray and took care of it. Some years later, when Belcher was at the zoo with the cat (which he took everywhere as they were best friends), and saw a clown handing out balloons. When he put the cat down to buy one, it ran away into the hyena pit. Belcher had to watch as his pet cat was torn to pieces by rabid animals. To this day, when he sees balloons or clowns, he goes into a murderous rage. On this particular day, he walked into a surprise party with clowns and that was that. That's probably what the cause was.

... Seriously, is speculation everyone's hobby around here, or what? At this point all you know is that a guy killed his girlfriend and himself. Yes, he was probably mentally ill, since you'd have to be to do something like this. Any further "well I have an opinion on the cause!" is pointless without more context and detail. And taking an event like this and re-directing it to a "concussions in sports" discussion is politicizing the issue pretty quickly following the death of two people and the orphaning of a third.

I really don't see your point. CP is for discussion, which includes speculation. We may as well close all the CBA threads, as we are not privy to the actual discussions and most of the threads contain speculation. So should we close this thread until further details are released? I'm not sure what you really want.

[Plett25]

Originally Posted by AR_Six

... Seriously, is speculation everyone's hobby around here, or what? At this point all you know is that a guy killed his girlfriend and himself. Yes, he was probably mentally ill, since you'd have to be to do something like this. Any further "well I have an opinion on the cause!" is pointless without more context and detail. And taking an event like this and re-directing it to a "concussions in sports" discussion is politicizing the issue pretty quickly following the death of two people and the orphaning of a third.

Politicizing? I don't think that word means what you think it means.

And when are people supposed to discuss things? After they didn't happen?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Super Nintendo Chalmers

By definition, a prediction is never premature.

I would disagree, at this stage it is a guess, not even a prediction, a prediction supposes some information.

[Tinordi]

And taking an event like this and re-directing it to a "concussions in sports" discussion is politicizing the issue pretty quickly following the death of two people and the orphaning of a third.

That's kind of the point. What caused this tragedy is basically one of the first questions that people ask. The key is prevention of future tragedies.

We do know a couple of things though. We know that in the past year 3 NHLers with brain injuries have died. We are starting to research the impacts of sub-concussive events on athletes and are concluding that it is altering brain chemistry. And we know that this appeared completely out of character for this latest athlete.

So is anyone saying that concussions lead to the murder and suicide of two people? No. Not what I see. But I do see alot of people trying to understand what happened. And head injuries are top of mind right now. Sure we wont know now, if at all, what role they played.

So your point that it's all speculation and therefore we shouldn't take about it is frankly just not adding anything.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

That's kind of the point. What caused this tragedy is basically one of the first questions that people ask. The key is prevention of future tragedies.

We do know a couple of things though. We know that in the past year 3 NHLers with brain injuries have died. We are starting to research the impacts of sub-concussive events on athletes and are concluding that it is altering brain chemistry. And we know that this appeared completely out of character for this latest athlete.

So is anyone saying that concussions lead to the murder and suicide of two people? No. Not what I see. But I do see alot of people trying to understand what happened. And head injuries are top of mind right now. Sure we wont know now, if at all, what role they played.

So your point that it's all speculation and therefore we shouldn't take about it is frankly just not adding anything.

Great post and I don't disagree. However these kind of things are floating topics where we are talking about sports related counter trends.

It wasn't that long ago that we were talking about Roid rage, then we were talking about young poor athletes that were suddenly made rich and fell under the care of not so nice people.

I don't disagree that concussions and head injuries are a major concern here, and that the two major contact sports in Hockey and Football are now slowly realizing that its a problem.

I do go back and look at this kids injury history and at first glance this kid hasn't missed a game since high school, I believe, so at first glance I would be suspicious about other factors.

Someone mentioned that he shot his wife 9 times and that was a indicator of rage. I think that would depend on the weapon he's using. But most of the stuff that I've read on rage related crimes is that emptying a clip into someone isn't as much rage related, a lot of the crimes based on that the person will take a shot then instantly feel regret and stop.

The autopsy results are key here.

As well as interviewing the witness who we hear has noted that the couple was fighting lately.

I remember reading a book on criminals that the vast majority commit a crime and would probably never do it again, something just tipped them over the edge. Like the father who shoots his kid when they're fighting over the last piece of pie.

There's nothing in this kids history that really looks like its an indicator of what happened here.

But if it was brain injury then the Chiefs and his college team and the NFL have a lot to answer for based on the fact that he has never missed a game.

If it was performance enhancing or other drug issues then the NFL testing program is flawed.

If it was depression or another mental illness then who knows who takes the blame.

Maybe he was just one of those hidden a$$holes that we read about that was a nice happy guy that everyone loved until he gets home and slaps his wife around or one day mows down a movie theatre.

[GFG4Life]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sports...0,929969.story

A member of the Cleveland Browns' grounds crew killed himself at their practice facility, a team spokesman said Sunday.

The man's body was found Saturday morning at the facility in suburban Cleveland, the same day Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Jovan Belcher committed suicide in front of his coach and general manager after earlier killing his girlfriend.

Head injury??

[return to the red]

I think people are looking to far into this. Sometimes people just do what they do, it's not a matter of being a professional athlete or head injuries or whatever.

I think the Chiefs did an admorable job in how the handled it though in having a moment of silence in regards to domestic abuse. Tragic story that a pro football player took his life but equally as tragic, if not more, that he took someone's before.

[Zevo]

Junior Seau also shot himself. His preliminary autopsy report.

"In addition, an initial autopsy of the brain of the former San Diego Chargers great and beloved San Diego sports icon showed no apparent damage from his illustrious NFL career, during which he distinguished himself as one of the best defensive players ever to play the game. His passionate, instinctive, reckless and leave-it-all-on-the-field playing style turned him into a10-time All-Pro and 12-time Pro Bowl selection."

While brain damage from concussions may be a contributing factor in these cases, it could very well be something else. As far as I know, Seau's case hasn't indicated any such facts yet.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by return to the red

I think people are looking to far into this. Sometimes people just do what they do, it's not a matter of being a professional athlete or head injuries or whatever.

You are absolutely correct but it makes for more fun to come up with conspiracies. This kind of thing happens in the US multiple times a day and regularily in Canada as well. The only difference with this story is the perpetrator had a high profile job. Domestic violence isn't simply something done only by regular Joe's.

Most of us have no idea what's going on in the heads of people you may be close to let alone a person you have never met that is in a different country so to dig into his media history and just assume since he didn't have behaviour problems before that he did this out rage from concussions is simply grasping at straws.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

We do know a couple of things though. We know that in the past year 3 NHLers with brain injuries have died.

We also know 3 NHLers with major alcohol and drug problems died too.

You do understand that two of the three recent NHL death were accidental overdoses right? And the third was suicide because of depression among other things which could or could not be caused by a head injury.

Lets just blame head injuries for everything.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Iginla

We also know 3 NHLers with major alcohol and drug problems died too.

You do understand that two of the three recent NHL death were accidental overdoses right? And the third was suicide because of depression among other things which could or could not be caused by a head injury.

Lets just blame head injuries for everything.

What about the hundreds and thousands of hockey and football players with head injuries that are still living their lives? The Nick Kypreos and Sterling Sharpes of the world seem to be living law abiding lives and they had serious concussion issues. Head injuries are a problem for sure but suicide, domestic violence, depression, or sheer stupidity are all very common in brain injury free society.

[troutman]

I missed this last night:

Bob Costas Gun Control Speech: Jovan Belcher Murder-Suicide Inspires Halftime Segment


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...ef=mostpopular

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by troutman

I missed this last night:

Bob Costas Gun Control Speech: Jovan Belcher Murder-Suicide Inspires Halftime Segment


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...ef=mostpopular

Guns do not kill people, people kill people. And possible head injuries do not kill people either. Surely to god there are enough doctors on CP with anecdotal tails about people who had head injuries and did not kill anyone for us to say definitively that there is no causal relationship between head injuries and violent actions.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/g...Wl3vKf4Jasj5EP

Kansas City Chiefs linebacker and former Long Island high-school star Jovan Belcher was allegedly battling football-related head injuries and booze, painkiller and domestic problems when he snapped and murdered his girlfriend before killing himself in front of two coaches Saturday.

[EddyBeers]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1577497.html

That is probably a pretty good reason why the NFL does not want to deal with head injuries. I am sure in 20-25 years we will look back at people who thought head injuries were not a big deal the same way that we chuckle at the idea that smoking does not cause lung cancer. And in much the same way that Sterling Sharpe has not killed anyone, my grandmother is 91 and she smoked her entire life, therefore smoking does not cause lung cancer.

[Street Pharmacist]

Neurologists think CTE leads to violent behavior, but God forbid anyone on here think so...

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What about the hundreds and thousands of hockey and football players with head injuries that are still living their lives? The Nick Kypreos and Sterling Sharpes of the world seem to be living law abiding lives and they had serious concussion issues. Head injuries are a problem for sure but suicide, domestic violence, depression, or sheer stupidity are all very common in brain injury free society.

What does anecdotal stories have to do with the ever strengthening hypothesis that brain injuries increase the risk for these mental health issues. Does brain health not play any role in personality?


I think some on here think that by accepting this possibility they are absolving him of guilt. Fact is it's an abhorrent act that is really unforgivable. That doesn't change science

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Neurologists think CTE leads to violent behavior, but God forbid anyone on here think so...

And where exactly are people denying that? What people are taking issue with is the knee jerk, and quite frankly pathetic, attempt to link this particular incident with head injuries despite the fact that there is virtually no basis upon which to so besides the fact that Belcher played in the NFL.

[return to the red]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Neurologists think CTE leads to violent behavior, but God forbid anyone on here think so...

It's not that people don't think that it doesn't it's just common place now that an athlete goes off the deep end and automatically it's realted to a head injury or the grind of being a professional athlete.

even the NYPost article is quick to put that magical word "allegedly" in their story

Kansas City Chiefs linebacker and former Long Island high-school star Jovan Belcher was allegedly battling football-related head injuries and booze, painkiller and domestic problems when he snapped and murdered his girlfriend before killing himself in front of two coaches Saturday

I love how they put "allegedly battling football-related head injuries" before the Booze and painkillers, because booze and painkillers don't make someone mentally unstable at all.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Neurologists think CTE leads to violent behavior, but God forbid anyone on here think so...

Doctors can take their "science" and shove it. My neighbor got a concussion while playing hockey in junior, he has not killed anyone yet and is not violent to the best of my knowledge, therefore these neurologists (sounds like a fancy word for someone who does not know that which they speak of) are probably full of it.