Tory MPs divided as fetal-rights motion defeated in Commons

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Azure

Which is why most prospective adoptive parents go overseas, right?

You are also ignoring the fact that many kids with "issues" are the ones who are put into the adoption route. I can't imagine many people wanting to adopt a child with Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder but they make up a huge population of the kids in foster care.

[Hatter]

I somewhat agree with those who voted yea. Nobody will convince me that in unexceptional circumstances that an 8 month fetus is not a human being. I think there's a huge difference between a cluster of cells and an 8 month fetus that could more than likely survive on its own.

Zero regulation is not the way to go.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Isn't Calgary southern Alberta also?

Ted Menzies voted no. He represents a riding that was pretty hardcore Wildrose in the provincial election.

That is who I was referring too.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by etherealgirl

Politics isn't black and white, face value, and it's not an elaborate conspiracy theory either. I'm not sure how assuming that the leader of a party with a very firm grip on control who I imagine (personally) shares Woodworth's beliefs and also counts the religious right in his base is not at all involved in any capacity or happy with the end result is "out to lunch". It's not deserving of an eye-roll either.

Apparently "Campaign for Life Coalition" (an anti-abortion group) disagrees with your assessment of Harper's beliefs... or is this another devious plan by Harper to misdirect and confuscate while he diabolically initiates his hidden agenda plan for an abortion-free Canada?

Prime Minister Harper again shows his true colours

In a shocking move Wednesday afternoon, Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper voted against a bill seeking to ban coerced abortion. Bill C-510, sponsored by MP Rod Bruinooge (Winnipeg South, CPC), was defeated at second reading in a vote of 178-97.

“Some have believed that Mr. Harper was a closeted pro-lifer waiting for a majority so he could enact pro-life legislation. With this vote against a bill to ban coerced abortion his true colours have been revealed once and for all,” said Jim Hughes, National President of Campaign Life Coalition.

“He said at one time his beliefs on the matter fell somewhere in the middle. If he simply didn’t want to appear to be pro-life, he should have just stayed away.” Mr. Hughes continued. “Everyone opposes coerced abortion. Why paint himself as an extremist on abortion?”

“I guess he figures social conservatives have no where to go politically”, he added. “Didn’t the Reform Party teach us what happens when Conservatives go to the left?”

The bill, called Roxanne’s Law, was named after Roxanne Fernando, a Manitoba woman whose boyfriend attempted to coerce her into having an abortion after she became pregnant in 2007. After refusing to have the unborn child killed, Roxanne was beaten and left to die in a snow bank.
Roxanne’s death is clear evidence that coercion happens in this country,” said Mary Ellen Douglas, National Organizer for CLC. “We had our own problems with the Bill, but the intent was good,” she said. It should have been sent to committee to improve the language and not to be dismissed out of hand.”

“Campaign Life Coalition will continue, as always, to support individual MPs who are pro-life, and who will support legislation to protect all human life. We are not tied to any one party. We applaud those MPs who had the courage to vote for Bill C-510 at second reading.

http://www.campaignlifecoalition.com...ess+Room&id=53

[etherealgirl]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

and there is your down fall.

I'm not trying to climb up.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by etherealgirl

I'm not trying to climb up.

clearly

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Maybe this is sarcasm that's going over my head, but I see Lethbridge and Medicine Hat both on the list.

If you count ridings in Red Deer and further south as "Southern Alberta", voting went as follows:

Yea:
Diane Ablonczy (Calgary Nose Hill)
Rob Anders (Calgary West)
Earl Dreeshen (Red Deer)
Jim Hillyer (Lethbridge)
Jason Kenney (Calgary Southeast)
LaVar Payne (Medicine Hat)
Kevin Sorenson (Crowfoot)

Nay:
Stephen Harper (Calgary Southwest)
Ted Menzies (Macleod)
Deepak Obhrai (Calgary East)
Michelle Rempel (Calgary Centre-North)
Blake Richards (Wild Rose)
Devinder Shory (Calgary Northeast)

Calgary Centre is currently unrepresented pending a by-election.

[etherealgirl]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

This is where your assertion starts to fall apart. It is potentially true that Harper does have the opinion that abortion is wrong - however at the same time so does roughly half of the population going from most statistics that I have read on the issue (a number that is admittedly decreasing). That being said it doesn't matter what his personal opinions are, he has been elected to represent a riding and those are the opinions that he should be purporting, at least in theory while doing so in a way that is congruent with the charter of rights and freedoms as well as other agreements and treaties that Canada has signed.

I totally agree, and hope he's doing just that. And not just in this case, but in all issues. The problem is the myriad other things he and the party do that are disingenuous, which undermine his image.

[etherealgirl]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Apparently "Campaign for Life Coalition" (an anti-abortion group) disagrees with your assessment of Harper's beliefs... or is this another devious plan by Harper to misdirect and confuscate while he diabolically initiates his hidden agenda plan for an abortion-free Canada?



http://www.campaignlifecoalition.com...ess+Room&id=53

Oh come on. It's just practicality. They can threaten to take their votes elsewhere if they want, but realistically, there's no extreme right grassroots party on the federal horizon and the bill came from a Conservative and was supported by mostly Conservatives. Who else would they vote for? And this segment if the population tends to vote rather than stay home. Harper is right to do exactly as he did. Despite what I think his beliefs are.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by etherealgirl

I totally agree, and hope he's doing just that. And not just in this case, but in all issues. The problem is the myriad other things he and the party do that are disingenuous, which undermine his image.

I agree - I have not been overly impressed with the Conservative government since the latest election and the number of blunders that the members of the party have made not to mention some questionable decisions from an economic perspective. However as with any political party I agree with some actions and I disagree with others, that is just how it works.

That being said I am very glad that they are in power and not the NDP or the apparently rudderless Liberal Party.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Azure

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...erm-abortions/

Article is from 2012. I know most people here don't think 537 isn't that many, but to me it is a huge problem. Apparently most Canadians agree.

From the same article.



also...



Nice to know what company we're in.

I almost didn't bother reading the article after this nonsense:

Canada is the only country in the Western world with no legal protection for pre-born children.

The article doesn't specify if these abortions were for medically valid reasons or not.

I also don't think third trimester abortions are as cut and dry as you make them out to be, but even if that were the case, that clearly wasn't the intention of this bill.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Azure

Every single other country in the world except 2 that don't like human rights at all have come to some sort of law as to when abortion should still be allowed.

If the study is anything more than that then I agree it is a sham, but it is concerning that people here think late-term abortions should be legal without any kind of medical reason when many fetus' have survived after 21 weeks.

Probably because most people realize that little would change with a law like that being enacted since you can't just show up at a doctor and get a late term abortion on demand as it is. It's something that's taken very seriously by the medical community.

It's also not a widespread issue. Third trimester abortions represent about half of one percent of all abortions in Canada and the if studies are to be believed, vast majority are done for purely medical reasons. Further, that percentage is lower than most countries that have restrictions so it's not clear to me at all how it would have any effect. Everyone who is currently getting late term abortions would still be getting them even with a new law.

I suppose there's nothing wrong with having laws to regulate late term abortions and I wouldn't disagree with them in principle, but is it really a problem in Canada right now? It seems like virtually all late term abortions are already done for medical reasons, so I seriously question the notion that women are getting abortions 6+ months into a pregnancy for convenience.

[etherealgirl]

Thanks opendoor, that was very well put.

[vanisleflamesfan]

So just when you were finished rejoicing at the death of M-312, another Conservative MP is introducing another Private Members bill related to abortion.

Bill M-408.

Tough to find any info on it right now, more info (and a link) when I find one.

Edit: Here's a link.

[Bertuzzied]

Where is Harper and his muzzle?? He should have a crap load of them on hand due to Rob Anders still being in the commons.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Is the CPC trying to dig its own grave here? How long until one of them makes a legitimate rape comment?

[Canuck-Hater]

Originally Posted by OffsideSpecialist

Even so, I read a National Post article where Mulcair is saying that this is a part of Harper's hidden agenda

I'm not the biggest Harper fan, but can't he come up with something else?

Theres plenty of other things that prove his hidden agenda anyways. Look no further than Bill C10 and C30.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Where is Harper and his muzzle?? He should have a crap load of them on hand due to Rob Anders still being in the commons.

I'm assuming Harper used his power just to get Anders to show up.

[Senator Clay Davis]

To be fair to the esteemed Mr. Anders, he generally shows up. Staying awake is another issue.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by kirant

I'm assuming Harper used his power just to get Anders to show up.

His powers are weakening. He got Anders to show up but couldn't force him to vote properly.